Given Espionage as it currently is, what are the best strategies?

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Liggi

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I know there's some criticism about espionage and its efficacy, but I'm wondering, does anyone have some effective / useful ways to use it now?

I'm hoping to find the best strategy for each individual Operation, and how a build focused on Espionage can do as much as possible given the current system.

For example, I know having the right kind of Asset gives you a longer-term +10% on Research Speed after a Steal Technology Operation, and getting a lot of Assets allows high infiltration which means you can observe enemy fleet movements.

What are your absolute best Espionage strategies?
 

Strangedane

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What are your absolute best Espionage strategies?
Ignore it and use the energy for something that matters?
Not the answer you were hoping for I guess.

I guess there is some merit to steal tech for the tech speed and locking tech cards, but it doesn't seem worth the hassle.
 
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Ignore it and use the energy for something that matters?
Not the answer you were hoping for I guess.

I guess there is some merit to steal tech for the tech speed and locking tech cards, but it doesn't seem worth the hassle.
I'll second that - tech stealing costs energy, time, attention, and espionage assets for a possibility of tech card locking and 10-20% of a tech I'd get eventually anyways.
 
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I think you can get some value early out of building enough of a spy network to see their ship designs, but mostly yeah I don't bother with it.

The existing system looks like a reasonable foundation for espionage content, but the content isn't there yet.
 
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FuriousGreg

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I just ignore it because it's boring. The main use of Diplomats for me is to get Influence early in the game (I send out a bunch of Scout ships to find other empires and first contact right away).
 

Dementor4

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I've been in a situation where the "sabotage starbase" option came in handy, during the early/mid game when beefy starbases are a real pain in the butt to crack I was able to get a sabotage/military asset in place resulting in a "wreck the whole starbase" option on success. The starbase went from something like 24k fleet power to 8k because all of its gun segments were shut down at once, which let me take the system for control of a critical chokepoint.

But in general the system just isn't worth the effort sadly.
 
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DeanTheDull

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I know there's some criticism about espionage and its efficacy, but I'm wondering, does anyone have some effective / useful ways to use it now?

I'm hoping to find the best strategy for each individual Operation, and how a build focused on Espionage can do as much as possible given the current system.

For example, I know having the right kind of Asset gives you a longer-term +10% on Research Speed after a Steal Technology Operation, and getting a lot of Assets allows high infiltration which means you can observe enemy fleet movements.

What are your absolute best Espionage strategies?

Tech pathing efficiency for aggressive tech-alloy empires that invest in diplomats but don't intend to rely on diplomacy in favor of early-game conquests. (Shared Burden-Diplomatic Corps, Xenophobe-Pompous Purist, Xenophile Catalytic-Anglers, Syndicate-Corps, etc.)


Espionage's highest opportunity cost in that it requires an envoy, which in the early game is a source of significant influence for claims, and then diplomatic impacts. However, the tech implications of the steal technology operation are considerable.

Steal Technology doesn't outright give you a tech, but gives you 1/3rd of the tech (at your current sprawl cost) and turns it into a permanent option. This is unironically great, and in some ways better than if you got the tech outright due to how Stellaris's tech draw system works. Any technology that is already an option will never be drawn in your group of 3 cards- this gives you a better chance to draw a high-value card early. And any technology that is a precursor to two or more later techs, that is set aside as an option, will never have those two techs clutter the pool either, which they would if you got the entire tech outright.

What this means in abstract is that you want to steal all the techs you don't want, so that the only techs you can draw are the ones you do want. (And if you do steal a tech you want- congratulations, instant progress on it, and guaranteed for your preference.)

This is similar in principle with the tech option advantages of the Discovery Tree and related tech, which- by broadening your selection of choices- gives you a higher quality gain every tech generation. Those give you a good option; tech theft removes bad options from the pool. Together they can greatly increase you chance at what you want. The best payoff, in my experience, was getting an exceptionally early Cruiser or Psionic draw.

And honestly, even if you don't get something new because of nothing to steal you get something good: up to 1000 stored research of a random type basically means you double your research rate for a random technology for months/years.



Now, this takes time to set-up in terms of infiltration, and you'd really like an appropriate asset to help. It's also not 100% reliable due to the tech-based RNG events, like the... shield check, IIRC? But this is why you tie it to a build that will already wants/support a strong enough CG economy to support a healthy science economy, and a militarist outlook/incentivize for early expansion.

The real cost-saving is to understand you can bypass on robots for the early game. At 1 pop, 2 alloys, and 5 energy a month, robot factories are a drain on any early-game war economy, to the point that if you are a warmonger, you want to start building robots after the first conquests. But if you're not stretched the max supporting multiple robot factories of energy costs, you. have the energy to afford many more operations, and by that point most people should have a tech worth stealing, improving your efficiency (and- if not giving an option- helping you research what you do have much faster).

Now, it is annoying that you have to re-infiltrate and claim influence, but this is where you can start by alternativing with Asset operations until you get an asset you want for tech-theft.



Now, is this an optimal sort of strategy? Not really. It has a payoff of around year 30-40 or so, when tech tier 3/4 starts becoming available and highly dependent on your tech pathing influence. It relies on assets; no one took the Enigmatic Engineering tech. 40 years is a relatively long time for a strategy to start bearing subtle fruit. But given that machine assembly has a similar or longer return on invement window, it's not bad.
 
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Echo Candor One

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I've been in a situation where the "sabotage starbase" option came in handy, during the early/mid game when beefy starbases are a real pain in the butt to crack I was able to get a sabotage/military asset in place resulting in a "wreck the whole starbase" option on success. The starbase went from something like 24k fleet power to 8k because all of its gun segments were shut down at once, which let me take the system for control of a critical chokepoint.

But in general the system just isn't worth the effort sadly.
There are really nice tech options (10% speed increase, slow their research), too, but you have to get the correct assets and nothing really makes it clear that good assets make your espionage options better. I suspect all of the operations have really strong options with the right assets.

I might try an espionage run to see if I can't find something that makes it worth an investment, now that some energy is freed up from leaders and edicts.
 
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Zagreb 887

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The best use of espionnage? "improve relations"?
Imo, envoy are far too precious to be wasted on the inconsequential outcomes of Espionnage (idk for MP game, in SP its irrelevant) if you have a Federation, or are involved in the galactic community, they are far more impactful in the conventionnal diplomatic missions.
A shame, having a meaningful Espionnage system would have been nice. Right now its just a fancy menu.
 
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Nevars

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Spamming steal tech to clearing out a lot of tech options that I don't particularly care about so I can beeline for techs that actually matter.
 
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fourteenfour

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Ignore it and use the energy for something that matters?
Not the answer you were hoping for I guess.

I guess there is some merit to steal tech for the tech speed and locking tech cards, but it doesn't seem worth the hassle.

Seriously, Master of Orion * series of which some versions are more than twenty years old have far better espionage game play than what we got in Stellaris. I really would prefer a troop style play where we can assign leaders to spy cells that we recruit like armies but through special buildings and then have both defensive and offensive setups, the current system does not even let me defend!

Still in the current setup all I ended up using it for was stealing tech so I had something guaranteed to research early on
 
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At some point I had 12 envoys, so I was spamming "steal technology". I had a long list of technology options to research, that allowed me to choose technologies I want(I was very peaceful empire surrounded by friends + fed fleet, so I easily ingnored most military tech).

I am still looking for espionage builds.
I tried Criminal Heritage(and for that you need to know planets location to open branches), but turns out it is still better to improve relations and establish Embassy.

I tried Diplomatic Incident and other manipulation one(don't remember name), but for me it never worked well and I always decrease relations between Rivals ;)
Funny fact that AI using this operations on me quite successfully.

I want to try isolitionist build, so the only way for intel will be espionage.

I really like the system, but list of available operations is too short. I hope they will improve it/do some story pack for this.
(closing others branch office is something I want ;)
 

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1. get Assets
2. get all favors
3. repeat for every empire in the galaxy
4. ?????
5. You are the Senate
Bonus points if you become the Custodian in MP
This is for MP probably ;) In SP it is easier to buy favors for rare resources. Also with "improve relations" all galaxy will vote for you as custodian anyway.
 
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Leylos

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I know there's some criticism about espionage and its efficacy, but I'm wondering, does anyone have some effective / useful ways to use it now?

I'm hoping to find the best strategy for each individual Operation, and how a build focused on Espionage can do as much as possible given the current system.

For example, I know having the right kind of Asset gives you a longer-term +10% on Research Speed after a Steal Technology Operation, and getting a lot of Assets allows high infiltration which means you can observe enemy fleet movements.

What are your absolute best Espionage strategies?
Unlike most people I don't consider espionage to be weak. It's one of many tools you have, but you shouldn't expect it to win you games by itself.

Here are my thoughts on the various operations:

1.) Gather Information: Only really useful when you are up against Empires with very high Encryption in Order to boost your maximum intelligence level, or if you quickly need information (like military fleet location) on another empire.

2.) Spark Diplomatic Incident: Very situational what this does as you can't be sure where your opponents envoys are but its an effective tool to decrease an opponents diplomatic weight if they have a lot of envoys in the galactic community or ruin an opponents "Improve Relations" with another nation or lower a federations cohesion. You won't start any wars with this but you will undermine an opponents usage of their envoys, plus the operation is very easy to do.

3.) Prepare Sleeper Cells: This is an automatic choice pretty much all the time. The bonus to operations helps with prolonged espionage missions and sleeper cells also keep your spy network alife if you have to move away your envoy.

4.) Acquire Asset: You should always keep a few assets around for any of the more difficult operations as it helps a lot. Try to match assets with the same intel category (and operation category too if possible) as the first can give you more positive outcomes to your espionage missions.

5.) Extort Favors: Very useful if you need favours from certain empires but they have unfriendly relations to you. This can be especially helpful for getting your laws pushed through the galactic community. Do not use this on friendly empires.

6.) Smear Campaign: You get the choice of the 3 nations most friendly to your target. The modifier they can get is actually very high (-80, decaying at 1 per years). You can speed up the process by running Smear Campaigns in both Empires aimed at each other. if you used often enough you can break up alliances, federations and other pacts. Just be aware that the target nation might also not believe the smearing and then it won't do anything.

6.) Steal Technology: Very useful and should always be used if you have the resources to spare. Given the cooldown you get the most out of it by using it on a lot of other nations.

7.) Sabotage Starbase: If you want to go to war and there is a starbase in the way, this operation can make a big difference. If your codebreaking and operations is very high you can potentially destroy modules faster than your opponent can rebuild them! You should only use this on defensive starbases, anything else is a waste of energy.

8.) Arm Privateers: This one is often overlooked but its actually amazing. Using this in the middle of a war can bring your opponent all kinds of headache. The fleet that spawns does scale to your opponents naval capacity and wherever it randomly spawns it will usuallly destroy all the mining stations and intercept trade. Just don't expect it to crush your opponents fleet by itself.

9.) Crisis Beacon: Very situational but if the situation presents itself, absolutely devastating.
 
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