Give us more options which ressource to spend on development

[Canute VII]

Hi there, having a shot at development this time - I have noticed in my own game and read on the forum just how development is really basically the last thing you do when you are at your MP limit and don't want to spent those MPs on tech (since you're already 70% ahead of time ).

People also keep writing how spending your MP on development is the worse deal in comparison to just taking out the same amount of development by conquest.

So I reasoned, it should be possible to make other roads of development available. What comes to mind rather naturally is manpower and ducats. Depending on the current development of the province you can substitute MP by manpower or ducats. However, the higher the current development, the less effective this will be.

1. Manpower - send your men to that forlorn province and let them clear woods, build roads, plow fields. construct villages and so on. In a poor province you can send a many men and they will have loads of straightforward work to do. But alas, the higher the province's development, the less you may achieve by mere manpower. I.e. using manpower will be effective (in the sense of decreasing mp cost) if your province's development is low, the higher development aleady is, the less effective manpower can be used - that means, you have to contribute relatively more mp for the development.
2. Ducats - tell it to the public: everyone who will settle in your province and put his work to the service of the king will get free land and incentive in solid gold! Alas, peasants and artisans have quite a different understanding of their true value for your realm and while the former are plenty, the latter are few and coy... - i.e. the higher development already is, the less effective spending ducats will be and the ducat cost per mp saved will scale quadratically.

This is how I suggest to scale:

1. Manpower cost per one development = [1 / new_development] * base_mp_cost * 1000, e.g. increasing develpment from 3 to 4 will cost
   • 1/4 * 50 * 1000 = 12500 manpower AND
   • (4-1)/4 * 50 = 38 monarch points

2. Ducat cost per one development = current_development * ([1 / new_development] * base_mp_cost)^2, e.g. increasing development from 3 to 4 will cost

• 3 * ([1/4] * 50)^2 = 469 ducats AND
• (4-1)/4 * 50 = 38 monarch points

That is in this example you will get a 25% reduction in MP cost for either 12500 manpower or 469 ducats. Thus nations rich in manpower or rich in ducats (but scarce in MP) would be able to have a discount on development.

Disclaimer: Actual numbers could be tweaked a bit, but I hope the suggested framework is good enough...!?

 

[BrokenSky]

Yeah this actually works I think? Most of the problems with suggestions for development using money is that it makes it not worth using mana ever. Using manpower though is actually a pretty good idea I think, especially for developing low end (<10 dev) provinces, as most of the time these are not worth developing ever. Would probably re-jig the numbers about a bit, the number for manpower seems a little high, but I'd make it a bit dependent on terrain too?

 

[Canute VII]

Would probably re-jig the numbers about a bit, the number for manpower seems a little high, but I'd make it a bit dependent on terrain too?

Sure, I just took the constant 50 base_mp_cost for illustration and out of personal laziness . Base mp cost is of course dependent on the level of development already achieved in the province, development modifiers like university building -20% develoment cost, being the capital, being center of trade, terrain etc.

 

[sparta105]

Yes! Yes! Yes please!

 

[Panzerschreck]

I would suggest that, by using other means (like manpower or money), that these developments aren't instnt (so they take some time) and are also random. While you develop a province by that means, you can't develop it with MP, but afterwards you get ~95% of your used manpower back and maybe have a chance of 1% to develop another point.

 

[Canute VII]

I would suggest that, by using other means (like manpower or money), that these developments aren't instnt (so they take some time) and are also random. While you develop a province by that means, you can't develop it with MP, but afterwards you get ~95% of your used manpower back and maybe have a chance of 1% to develop another point.

• Manpower and ducats would only be used to buy a discount on MP, not to replace it altogether. I also think that it makes sense, I mean, you would still have to exert power to get development done even if you put money and manpower on top.
• Development should not be instant, yes that's a very good point. Actually <haloween> made a suggestion ragarding this in https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/development.913603/ His idea could as well be somewhat applied here, he writes: "Klicking the development button would start a timer similar to diplo annexing. Every month some mp get transferred to the province and once all required mp are accumulated the development is added to the province." I suggest however, that ducats cost be immediately cashed out, as well as manpower be immediately subtracted from the manpower pool. However, time required for development would be dependent on the MP originally (i.e. without discount ) required, so if it requires 20 MP, it would last 20 months, if it reuqires 40 MP, it requires 40 months (just for example, actual relationship MP cost - time required should be balanced out). [Disclaimer: actually I like <haloween> suggestion a lot, maybe the two can be merged somehow? ]
• I don't really like development being "random" in the proposed mechanic. In the end you start a concerted action and follow a plan. Randomness better suits some events, but that is a whole different topic.
• As to your idea of getting 95% of manpower back, well I think you can look at this in two ways:

1. 1. NO, it is not justified given the discount on MP that you've received. And: your men actually settle in the province you have developed, so there's no getting back any manpower after the event.
   2. YES, when your men are done with their work, they go home and you could instantly draw them to your army. But then for the time development is being made, the manpower should also be subtracted from your max manpower, so that it does not simply fill up over the same time.

Me, personally, I tend to the "NO"-option, but then who am I to decide on that Having said so, I think it really comes down to balancing it out.​

 

[Troy003]

I like this idea a lot because as a large nation I can not ever develop as fast, let alone faster, than the OPMs. With this, however, there would be a way to develop provinces more easily being a large nation.