Give underused traits additional effects

[Armagodura]

As far as I know, there's plenty of species traits that just aren't the most popular since they're only fit for either a very specific job or purely to add flavor to a species.
I propose these traits are given minor additional effects to make them slightly more universal, or, at least, not a complete waste of a trait just for that delicious flavor.

Examples I came up with:

• Industrious also giving 5% output on other worker jobs besides miners
• Ingenious also giving 5% output on specialist jobs
• Resilient also giving 5% habitability/5 years lifespan (and change its original effect to an army health bonus, since we're here)

Make your thoughts known, if you wish!

 

[HFY]

I'd suggest that traits should modify values across job strata.

The issue for me is that there are one-job traits which are either weak or strong depending on the other modifiers available for that job (e.g. +15% energy is weak when you have +60% passively to them from tech, +10% alloys remains strong because you don't ever get +60% to alloys).

So something like:

Ingenious: +15% energy from jobs, +1 physics from Researchers, +1 max level for Leaders (and remove Talented)

Industrious: +15% minerals from jobs, +1 CG from Artisans, -0.1 amenity consumed

Resilient: +50% army health, -1 CG upkeep for Medics, Leaders of this species have a 10% chance to remove a negative trait every year

Green Thumb (non-fungoid and non-plantoid only): +15% food from jobs, +1 society from Researchers, +1% happiness per (plantoid or fungoid) on colony up to +10%

etc.

 

[Kiwibaum]

I am not sure I like putting a ton of effects on each trait. Considering how many traits some species can have a little into the game it would kinda feel a little bloated imo. It might certainly help with dealing with free negative trait picks tho. But there I actually might prefer to have flexible trait costs during species creation, depending on ethics.

For many weaker traits I think number tweaking would help a lot already. But that would require breaking from increments of 5% on each trait and maybe in some cases go with something like 8% or something like that.

For resilient I'd actually like to see something else: I'd love to see armies not being summoned from the ether, but actually recruited from pops. Be that spending pops to make them or requiring the pop growth of the planet during recruitment. This would achieve multiple things: It would make armies much more valuable, including the army strength boni that are often ignored. It also would reduce pop count which is nice. And it would make wars a little less snowbally, where the empire that is constantly in wars and winning tends to grow faster and faster.

Talented similarly I see the problem more in the cores sytem than the trait. Leader level cap is a pretty useless thing to get. You get it from plenty sources and can cap out on it. It also becomes less and less valuable the more you already, have as levels quickly take ages to get. I think level cap should effect starting level aswell as maximum level. Maybe not to the same degree, but maybe every +2 level cap you get +1 starting level. And once you reach the maximum level cap you get a starting level with each additional one.

I think the devs have their eyes at least a little bit on trait balance. I think it would probably help more to give somewhat more concrete examples and split them into seperate suggestions.

 

[mial42]

Personally, I'd like to remove all job-specific traits. At least until the genemodding interface isn't a dumpsterfire and traits don't come with major performance costs.

 

[Abdulijubjub]

Time for one of my favorite soapboxes:

• "+15% food" means you have less need for farmers (so your supposedly agrarian society has less actual agrarian activity). It gets washed out by tech increases to the point where it doesn't matter. And it has zero effect on anyone except farmers, so it makes no sense to apply to anyone else once you have the freedom to have multiple templates.
• "+1 energy from farmers" scales with tech, and doesn't reduce the need for farmers (reducing its own impact). But it still only applies to one job. +1 amenities would do something similar.
• "+15% (or +1) food from farmers, specialists use food to reduce job upkeep" (either per-job substitutions replacing 1 CG/2 minerals with 2 food or -25% job upkeep, +100% food upkeep) communicates that your society is focused around food and/or growing things, creates demand for the job it buffs, and has an effect on almost all pops.

Traits/civics/origins that just buff a job (basic traits, Mining Guilds, etc.) make you need fewer of that job, and are self defeating. Those that give alternate outputs (like Agrarian Idyll) make you want to have more of them, but are still bound by total useful consumption. Those that increase demand when they buff the job (Anglers, Catalytic+Idyll, Cave Dwellers+lithoid to some extent) are self reinforcing, and seem to work well.

Other alternatives for designs that may fit their theme better:

• Agrarian, +20% happiness and +200% political power when working as a farmer. +0.5% happiness per farmer on planet for non-farmers (max 5%). "Happy little trees." You can have either very happy farm worlds, or you can scatter farmers around for stability (they're like mini rulers), which would make you need more of them.
• Industrious: +1 mineral from miner jobs. +2 mineral upkeep, +1 CG or +.5 alloy in industrial jobs. "Work harder, not smarter." Industry jobs aren't net more valuable until you get significant job output bonuses (-2 minerals and +1 CG should be roughly value neutral), but you will do the same job with fewer artisans/metallurgists (ex. 6 artisans consuming 48 minerals, 8 miners making 40, and 10 from stations vs. 7 artisans consuming 42 minerals, 8 miners making 32, and 10 from stations). Net savings on par with +15% output, but it scales, and doesn't reduce the need for miners by nearly as much.
• Wasteful: -2 points, +10% pop upkeep (including food), +5% upkeep from jobs. Make it worth taking, and make it actually do something.
• Volatile Excretions: +.02 per motes pop, +25% motes from jobs. Same for the other resources. Double the base effect so it's less of a joke only good for edict cheese, and make the few Chemists you have to employ more powerful. This isn't self defeating because "need fewer chemists" is the point (IMO)
• Nomadic: the same as currently, but with 10 immigration push if it's the currently growing template (enough to overcome passive stability sometimes) and +200% susceptibility to immigration push (ex. 33 push results in almost 100% of growth going elsewhere). Make good destinations for people to migrate to, and you will get extra growth. Fail to satisfy their wanderlust, and your growth goes to whoever you have a pact with instead.

 

[XCodes]

As far as I know, there's plenty of species traits that just aren't the most popular since they're only fit for either a very specific job or purely to add flavor to a species.
I propose these traits are given minor additional effects to make them slightly more universal, or, at least, not a complete waste of a trait just for that delicious flavor.

Examples I came up with:

• Industrious also giving 5% output on other worker jobs besides miners
• Ingenious also giving 5% output on specialist jobs
• Resilient also giving 5% habitability/5 years lifespan (and change its original effect to an army health bonus, since we're here)

Make your thoughts known, if you wish!

You'll have to define popular because Ingenious is extremely popular. Industrious and Resilient are less popular, but still not bad by any means. Resilient is just very niche, but it's a solid trait to pick with Reanimators, which in turn is a solid Civic.

 

[GhostDanny]

I feel intelligent should be removed, so it no longer is an auto pick for meta gamers.
Considering ALL species that can create an interstellar empire need to be intelligent, it makes no sense for it being an additional trait only some species has.
We already have specialisation traits for the 3 science directions, that can be used for species better in a particular field.

 

[EarthboundPapa]

As far as I know, there's plenty of species traits that just aren't the most popular since they're only fit for either a very specific job or purely to add flavor to a species.
I propose these traits are given minor additional effects to make them slightly more universal, or, at least, not a complete waste of a trait just for that delicious flavor.

Examples I came up with:

• Industrious also giving 5% output on other worker jobs besides miners
• Ingenious also giving 5% output on specialist jobs
• Resilient also giving 5% habitability/5 years lifespan (and change its original effect to an army health bonus, since we're here)

Make your thoughts known, if you wish!

I feel intelligent should be removed, so it no longer is an auto pick for meta gamers.
Considering ALL species that can create an interstellar empire need to be intelligent, it makes no sense for it being an additional trait only some species has.
We already have specialisation traits for the 3 science directions, that can be used for species better in a particular field.

@Armagodura: The +5% change in resilient would defeat the purpose of picking the 'adaptive' or 'very adaptive trait'. Both perks of lifespan and habitability should not be combined in one because it lessens the role-play customization.

@GhostDanny: The Intelligent trait has all three directions included and is +30% combined. The specific science directions are only +15% but focused. Also adds to the dynamic of how the empire functions and keeps the RPG aspect of the game together. Intelligent should not be removed. I would say if anything the specific science directions should be +20% instead of +15%, but the when you make fundamental changes like this, it's possible there are also other changes that will have to be made to maintain the balance the game has.

I don't have the full game yet, so I haven't even seen the full set of traits. Probably makes my post not make sense. Haha.

 

[Armagodura]

You'll have to define popular because Ingenious is extremely popular. Industrious and Resilient are less popular, but still not bad by any means. Resilient is just very niche, but it's a solid trait to pick with Reanimators, which in turn is a solid Civic.

Hence why I said "as far as I know". I was basing my statement on what I've seen and considered myself, which I am willing to admit might be a very narrow view of the game.

@Armagodura: The +5% change in resilient would defeat the purpose of picking the 'adaptive' or 'very adaptive trait'. Both perks of lifespan and habitability should not be combined in one because it lessens the role-play customization.

Acually, I meant it as in either 5% more habitability or 5 more years of lifespan. One or the other, not both simultaneously. That'd be too much good stuff for a single trait point, the way I see it.