Give me advice for oirat to yuan

[makaramus]

dont take me wrong I literally won I need help for:
1)What to do with russia
2)Should I take mandate now or next war ( I planning to build a vassal wall between me and ming. And next war annex him like crazy because I got free claims its gonna be faster
3)What should I do first/Before taking mandate

Now before this I became emperor of china as japan and qing... yet oirat is diffrent difficult :/
Japan is all about time and manchu got very strong army + free cores etc

but oirat is a simple horde that can form yuan so achiving this took a lot of time

if I take mandate now it causes -50 yearly mandate drain(22 ming, 12 delhi and all remaining russia)
russia cannot reach siberia I blocked him

ideas: Aristocratic(I know many hate this but... I love it when I am emperor of china), humanist,admin,exploration(only picked so I can block russia if had luxary of time I wanted to pick expansion instead)

oh and as you can see from screen ottoman is my ally (formed this alliance to prevent ming dowing me while disaster ticking)so...

 

[atwix]

first and foremost: put your capital in Europe to create trade companies in Ming and India and wherever.

1. hit them when able; maybe during league war? Russia isn't priority here though, Ming and India are. You only got worthless land so far.. Go for the riches and BURN it.

2. No, that is a trap. don't EVER take mandate. Instead, use mandate cb to take silly amounts of land, and release/give cores back to biggest nations in Ming after releasing them (aka WU, SHUN, natons like that). Gobble Ming up slowly but steadily with mandate cb.

3. see above. i'd prey for an opening to declare on delhi or assam or khorasan/persia into sind then Bahmanis, and wurm your way down into India after placing capital in EUROPE to make trade companies eglible.

 

[makaramus]

first and foremost: put your capital in Europe to create trade companies in Ming and India and wherever.

1. hit them when able; maybe during league war? Russia isn't priority here though, Ming and India are. You only got worthless land so far.. Go for the riches and BURN it.

2. No, that is a trap. don't EVER take mandate. Instead, use mandate cb to take silly amounts of land, and release/give cores back to biggest nations in Ming after releasing them (aka WU, SHUN, natons like that). Gobble Ming up slowly but steadily with mandate cb.

3. see above. i'd prey for an opening to declare on delhi or assam or khorasan/persia into sind then Bahmanis, and wurm your way down into India after placing capital in EUROPE to make trade companies eglible.

wait... I dont want to make trade company lol yuan ideas gonna give me 5 extra state and admin giving me even more state XD I mean ... heh
persia and khorosan are my tributaries currently ... both of them were too small I didnt need to be emperor of china to make them accept I dont know how did they manage grow up like this XD(taberstan too)
I know mandate is trap dont worry but also I know that permant claims are too good stuff that giving you huge core discount So I tring to take it early but safe moment

so here is my potantial move:
1)take bunch of lands from ming
2)At %99 overextansion make ming relase many countries as he can and annul treaties with russia(He thought he was smart when my ally was ottoman XD)
3)at next war take mandate of heaven and remainings of ming from him. then just snowball ever other country I relased. if they dont exist anymore reconsider taking mandate
and as bonus: in my free time make delhi relase many country as he can or make him tributary before taking mandate
since after relasing that many countries I doubt if someone willingly stay his tributary

 

[Sfan]

Why don't you want to make TC land? It's just so much more money.

 

[indika_tates]

Advice? Don't form yuan. It ruined my Oirat game. Mandate of heaven is broken and at the time you start to border big nations it goes down quickly. Yuan is not Qing where you can form it without beinig emperor.

Yuan ideas are supposed to expand aggresively. Mandate of heaven not. And everyone around you is not going to be your tributary, specially Russia.

 

[otaats]

Advice? Don't form yuan. It ruined my Oirat game. Mandate of heaven is broken and at the time you start to border big nations it goes down quickly. Yuan is not Qing where you can form it without beinig emperor.

Yuan ideas are supposed to expand aggresively. Mandate of heaven not. And everyone around you is not going to be your tributary, specially Russia.

With my experience, he will soon have the mass that won't be too bothered by bordering Russia or Ottomans. I think he can take the mandate in the next war and not worry about anything.

 

[Vulkandrache]

With my experience, he will soon have the mass that won't be too bothered by bordering Russia or Ottomans. I think he can take the mandate in the next war and not worry about anything.

Mandate doenst care how big you are.
You need to push the reforms asap otherwise claiming Mandate sucks.
The Celestial government is utter shit without them.

Reduce Ming to OPM inside your borders and build a Vassal wall agains the biggest neighbours.
Diplotributize whatever you can allready and the rest after claiming.
Once you are big enough even nations in the HRE will accept.

Yuan has amazing Ideas but practically almost everything else with RCC is better just because of the EoC requirement.

 

[Sfan]

If you want to form Yuan for the achievement and be done with it, do it. If you want to use it on your road to WC, I'd say it's better to flip to Uzbek culture, form Mughals, let OPM Ming inside you and else do a WC, then take mandate in your last war, form Shan and form Yuan if you really want to. I agree with taking Mandate being usually crap.

 

[MiniaAr]

I did that in my Mongolia > Yuan campaign:

I made Chagatai an early march, so that any land conquered on the otherside wouldn't count for mandate penalties. My goal was to recreate the Mongol Empire, divided into its component Khanates.

This is the diplo map:

It was a pretty fun game.

 

[otaats]

I did that in my Mongolia > Yuan campaign:

I made Chagatai an early march, so that any land conquered on the otherside wouldn't count for mandate penalties. My goal was to recreate the Mongol Empire, divided into its component Khanates.

This is the diplo map:

It was a pretty fun game.

What was your strat for Mongolia? I'm planning on doing Mongolia->Yuan

 

[makaramus]

What was your strat for Mongolia? I'm planning on doing Mongolia->Yuan

well I can write my own for oirat I think will work just fine for you
1)Ofcourse gain your indepandence by help of ming
2)Expand to manchu for instutation
3)Conquer oirat then chagatai then uzbek
4)synch Sunni religion(trust me I know it dont have best bonuses but required)
4)conquer some (not have to be all just some) provinces in crimea
5)Royal marriage and ally ottoman (I was able to atleast he wont gain agresive expansion until you reach crimea and he will like you since he see you as sunni big nation)

After that when ottoman is free and has no immidiate threat around him stop paying ming
it appears ming is not stupid but becomes hopeless and ignores you... since dowing a big horde + ottomans means total suicide he just waits for disaster and after that game is easy

note:you may want to cripple russia if you are not gonna block him by picking exploration ideas or admin ideas before he form russia

 

[MiniaAr]

What was your strat for Mongolia? I'm planning on doing Mongolia->Yuan

I posted a lot of what I did in this topic:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...any-legit-form-yuan-strategies.1017333/page-4

It was 1.19 I think, but not a lot has changed in the whole strategy I would say.

 

[Sfan]

To be honest Mongolia is one of the easiest countries there is right now. They can ask for Ming to support independance, expand safely until they reach 300 dev and take Renaissance from Manchu land, then stop paying and trigger the disaster. It will be harder after CoC because apparently Ming will more agressively force the player to become tributary.

 

[caedussl]

I just finished a Oirat --> Yuan campaign.

I blocked off Russia by creating marches in Astrakhan and Sibir. I had no interest in taking Russian land, and keeping a ~1000 dev tributary isn't in my interest (after I formed Yuan I experimented with making them a tribute and I could never get their loyalty reasonable down by the time a the truce was up, and I had zero interest in warring them every 15 years to get it back). Looks like they're starting to creep west for you, so I'd war them, take their northern land so they have to stop colonizing, and then feed that land to a march you've released on your western frontier.

Do not take mandate until the very end. I took the mandate about 40-50 years after when I annexed Ming (who was a 2PM at the time).

I tried to have tributaries/vassals along my entire border before I take the mandate. I wasn't trying a WC, I just wanted a slow, casual, "realistic" formation of Yuan.

To be honest Mongolia is one of the easiest countries there is right now. They can ask for Ming to support independance, expand safely until they reach 300 dev and take Renaissance from Manchu land, then stop paying and trigger the disaster. It will be harder after CoC because apparently Ming will more agressively force the player to become tributary.

Oirat is still easier. It's not that Mongolia is hard, with Oirat you don't have to bother with independence. Now it's really hard to get Mongolia loyal due to historical rival but if you expand fast enough (eat Chagatai, use reclaim core CB to take Buryatia/Manchu land for yourself), you can not worry about an independence war, then you'll be able to abandon the vassal and annex them in five years.

 

[addvaluejack]

well I can write my own for oirat I think will work just fine for you
1)Ofcourse gain your indepandence by help of ming
2)Expand to manchu for instutation
3)Conquer oirat then chagatai then uzbek
4)synch Sunni religion(trust me I know it dont have best bonuses but required)
4)conquer some (not have to be all just some) provinces in crimea
5)Royal marriage and ally ottoman (I was able to atleast he wont gain agresive expansion until you reach crimea and he will like you since he see you as sunni big nation)

After that when ottoman is free and has no immidiate threat around him stop paying ming
it appears ming is not stupid but becomes hopeless and ignores you... since dowing a big horde + ottomans means total suicide he just waits for disaster and after that game is easy

note:you may want to cripple russia if you are not gonna block him by picking exploration ideas or admin ideas before he form russia

Have you tried culture shift to manchu? Their banners are awesome.
My last run with Mongolia is ruined because I run out of manpower during the war with Ming.

 

[makaramus]

Have you tried culture shift to manchu? Their banners are awesome.
My last run with Mongolia is ruined because I run out of manpower during the war with Ming.

manchu culture group cannot form yuan else I would be playing as jianzhu
manchu is qing oirat / mongolia is yuan

currently: I took mandate of heaven and tanking -0.01 mandate each year(wich I can handle)
didnt form yuan yet I gonna form it when I have positive mandate because forming a nation resets your mandate so i gonna form it if I lose so much mandate or have positive mandate income. currently heavlily conquering china with %75 core discount
After this I think I will complate my conquest of russia and make sweden my tributary

sadly ottoman no longer my ally ... even as ally I made their agresive expansion too high ended up they broke alliance so now they are my rival
on second thought... paint that oirat into red I just formed yuan after posting this with 0.03 positive mandate

 

[makaramus]

but most intresting part of this campaign is not me: bohemia is succesful emperor until now none of hre is catholic currently and only few reformed remains :O if he can manage to set some free cities he will have positive IA even remains of austria is protestant

 

[makaramus]

if anyone still wonder I got the achivement and here is end game
Russia and ottoman are allies and I am their common rival(funny... ottoman was my ally back in then aganist russia )
sweden is my tributary just to annoy russia
got entire china under my rule