Give Canada Some Attention (And other minors.)

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keynes2.0

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I'm talking about facts and trying to find an explanation for a suspectable number. 50,000 was more than all AFVs produced by the entire British Empire and therefore it's self-contradictory

Look at the language more carefully, that site doesn't say 50,000 AFVs, it says "50,000 tanks and armoured gun carriers".
 

jju_57

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I remember making a thread about how minors are weaker in HOI3 than they were in reality, and that then too, there was a guy in the thread going "oh, you just want to take over the world with the Baltic States". Don't remember if it was you, just found that striking...
There were many of us saying that because the main reason why people want minors buffed is to defeat their neighbors and expand an empire.

...either way, pardon me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anyone in this thread talking about world conquest, and this isn't the only argument for making minors historically correct anyway.
So Poland needs to last for almost 4 weeks instead of just 10-14 days?

For example, historically the Germans occupied the Norwegian major cities pretty much from day one of the invasion, and still took some time to subdue the country. In HOI3, Norway has a single VP, so all you need to do is take Oslo, and the Norsemen instantly surrender. I don't have concrete numbers, but I also have a feeling the Norwegians (and many other minors) had more forces than are depicted in HOI3.
First off that VP was removed because the AI is stupid and Germany sent 10 panzer divisions over the mountains where they died from supply and it ruined the rest of the game. As for more forces the game is at a higher strategic level and those other forces really don't mean anything. Norway was steamrolled in a few weeks at most.

To me, playing as the Norwegians is more fun when you get a chance to fight and can do things like place strategic objectives for the UK to have them give you a hand, fight a guerilla war in the mountains and in general try to hold out for as long as possible (which is next to impossible once Germany starts moving troops en masse through Denmark and Sweden, but still, it's a fun challenge) -- rather than just "oh, a whole German army landed next to Oslo and is overruning my garrison, guess that's it, then".
Go GIE and build resistance cells then.

Or as I've said many times mod in another division or two. Add that VP back in. Do whatever you want. Have YOUR game be exactly what YOU want.

But from a generic point of view AI Germany needs to steamroll Norway else it completely messes up the rest of the game. Too often the entire German army of 100 divisions is lost in Norway so things had to be done.

If you can't understand that then there is no hope.
 

21oliver

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Certain nations simply are too small both in military and economy/industry to truly be played in any realistic fashion. The game when handled by the AI at least is Armies of units vs other armies. There is simply no way to really handle cooperation with AI run Allied nations. And the game is a strategic level game, its not really about blowing up bridges and guerilla warfare...
 

varsovie

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MAKE LUXEMBOURG PLAYABLE!!!! :angry:

What I hated the most with HOI3 was the fact that Canadian divisionswere really hard to make good because of the lack of leadership/research, while in fact it was one of the most technologically advanced and mechanized force by the time it saw action, at least of the level of UK's divisions.
To achieve it in HOI3 you have to research nothing else than infantry and land doctrines while in reality the navy or air wasn't much behind.

But yeah Canada is a "support" nation and couldn't try to liberate france all by itself or invent revolutionary stuff.
 

21oliver

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The reason is the basis for game play in HOI3 is that you win with more units more often as opposed to more quality. Its the way the styled the game, and no i dont like it either. As i mentioned in one of these current threads if you compare Germany and Turkey in 1936 their Infantry units are almost identical. Far from accurate. In RL you had situations where a unit may be worth several units of another nation but that isnt present in HOI3 because the seperation in research is seldom that far between nations. For example a German Infantry division may have been 20x more effective and powerful then say an Ethiopian one, but in HOI3 the way the system is set up youll be hard pressed to be more then 2-4x more powerful. This means now instead of better quality units you need increased amounts of units to decide battles. So the smaller militaries that were higher tech dont equate well...
 

keynes2.0

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It's been a problem throughout the HOI series that superior numbers are brought to bear too easily. A numerically superior attacker wont just easily bring troops to bear and win, they're inflict superior casualties while doing so.
 

scroggin

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There is simply no way to really handle cooperation with AI run Allied nations.

Im sure the developers could come up with a way to handle co-operation with an A.I. run Allied nation. That is one of the biggest things I would like to see in HOIO4, even the HOI2 system of giving military control to the player was far better than HOI3. What I would like to see is a situation where all the allied forces in a theatre of operations are under common control with a common supply system.
 

aruon

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As well as a whole whack of other manufactured goods needed for both the war and of course civilian material. We pushed our industry hard, as hard as a nation with only 10 million could. All those numbers are just wartime production. Even with the 3 years lead up, foreknowledge of the war and the ability to start pumping out war material on day 1, in HoI 3 I can't come even close to this.

plus wasn't over 60% of Canadian industry still shuttered because of the depression?
 

Sinbuster

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I agree with the original poster Canada should be a lot stronger In game. But there also needs to be better co-operation between allies in order to make them an effective factor in HOI4.

Ignoring the classy Canadian stereotypes being thrown around, I think scroggin pretty much summarized the issue. Without allied cooperation minors will always feel isolated. If that mechanic is changed - and let's hope it is - than we'll be able to experience a proper support role. IMHO,receiving expeditionary forces in HOI2 was about the only time allied cooperation existed in the series, which isn't saying much.