Give back westernisation! And about institutes

[Makcum1453]

It was mistake delete westernisation, becouse other culture groups have weak army that cant fight against western nations. So you need back it, without this game for ottomans or russia impossible, they really can do nothing to europeans. I think would be fine if you also removed nessecity in weakness of technologies and invent something new in requirements to westernisation. Without this game will lose historical reliability becouse Russia did in history westernisation and Ottomans also tryed to do it

Now about institutes. I think now they spread so slowly in Europe and so fast in other world. So i offer change speed of spreading institutes faster in start of them and slowly and slowly at a distanse of institute center, becouse now chineese countries have same technologies as european nations or near of it and with their grand armies player cant conquer them (at least ottomans exactly not)

P.S. Why ai countries can have armies bigger than lets their income? My AI-Austry that i deprived italian and netherland territories and emperor status have army bigger than mine, when i have earnings of Egypt, Persia and India. And its impossible to have this army even if they reduced maintenance at their situation.

Im new here so if i create theme in wrong blog, please, transfer my message in right place. Thanks

 

[Cidadd]

I think now they spread so slowly in Europe and so fast in other world

I find this true for native Américans. I was playing GB and like 5 tribes were able to catch up in Institutions like 1 year after i finished a core in Manhattan

 

[grommile]

It was mistake delete westernisation, becouse other culture groups have weak army that cant fight against western nations.

You seem to suffer from the incorrect belief that Westernization was still changing your unit group in 1.17.

It hasn't done that since, uh, Patch 1.6 (the patch accompanying Wealth of Nations) by the looks of things. Certainly that was the patch where they compressed the unit group scale and rebalanced the units so that Western tech units no longer had an overwhelming pip advantage in the late game, and frequently had a significant pip disadvantage in the early game.

If AI Muscovy's losing too many wars in the current patch, it's because the slow spread of Institutions to their provinces is hurting their ability to stay up to date on MIL tech. If you think the AI Ottomans are losing too many wars in the current patch, please provide evidence (the forum consensus seems to be that the Ottomans are blobbing harder than they used to).

If you are losing too many wars as the Ottomans in the current patch, you're bad at the game.

 

[Gratak]

I find this true for native Américans. I was playing GB and like 5 tribes were able to catch up in Institutions like 1 year after i finished a core in Manhattan

Native americans have a religion reform that is currently insanely overpowered. As soon as they have a neighbor with Feudalism they get:
- Lose primitve status instantly (no more exploration cb)
- Embrace all institutions of that neighbor instantly everywhere (since that guy is certain to have colonialism and renassiance, that at least 3)
- Get technologies for free

Worst thing about that: This works recursively. As soon as one native reform his religion, his neighbor can do this was well... This is no problem with inca, maya, azteks who actually have to do something for their reform, but it is really needs to be fixed for the other natives...

 

[SolSys]

It was mistake delete westernisation, becouse other culture groups have weak army that cant fight against western nations. So you need back it, without this game for ottomans or russia impossible, they really can do nothing to europeans.

I have a feeling you'll find it useful [was updated recently]: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Land_units

 

[Teonod]

Now about institutes. I think now they spread so slowly in Europe and so fast in other world. So i offer change speed of spreading institutes faster in start of them and slowly and slowly at a distanse of institute center, becouse now chineese countries have same technologies as european nations or near of it and with their grand armies player cant conquer them (at least ottomans exactly not)

It's perfectly possible to conquer China. But you can't really say that you should be able to do it, since there is no historical precedence for Europeans conquering it.

 

[Makcum1453]

I have a feeling you'll find it useful [was updated recently]: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Land_units

I looked it, and i see that western army better than anatolian and eastern

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Native americans have a religion reform that is currently insanely overpowered. As soon as they have a neighbor with Feudalism they get:
- Lose primitve status instantly (no more exploration cb)
- Embrace all institutions of that neighbor instantly everywhere (since that guy is certain to have colonialism and renassiance, that at least 3)
- Get technologies for free

Worst thing about that: This works recursively. As soon as one native reform his religion, his neighbor can do this was well... This is no problem with inca, maya, azteks who actually have to do something for their reform, but it is really needs to be fixed for the other natives...

"Insanely overpowered" isn't just a reach, it's the kind of stretch that injures a metaphorical arm.

Even now, these nations are easily the least competitive starts in the world. The only significant change that would make sense is to make the colon conquest CB more viable/require less chain declarations. Let's not shove these nations back to waiting around hundred+ years to play as them please.

 

[Mike1984]

I looked it, and i see that western army better than anatolian and eastern

In the late game, yes. But it's not an overwhelming advantage. And, as others have said, Westernising has not changed your unit type for a long time. A Westernised Ottomans still used Anatolian units. The only thing that tech group still affects is the technology adjacency bonus (in which regard, the Ottomans have been seriously nerfed, their tech group is now one of the worst, since they are the only ones in it and, thus, get no bonuses).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

In the late game, yes. But it's not an overwhelming advantage. And, as others have said, Westernising has not changed your unit type for a long time. A Westernised Ottomans still used Anatolian units. The only thing that tech group still affects is the technology adjacency bonus (in which regard, the Ottomans have been seriously nerfed, their tech group is now one of the worst, since they are the only ones in it and, thus, get no bonuses).

You still get neighbor bonus on nations you physically neighbor, best I can tell. Since Ottomans can be pitching a tent near or inside HRE territory and Italy pretty early on, they're better off now than before, especially since they don't pay extra 25% cost/tech up front.

Regardless, it's hard to buy that Anatolian is actually worse for neighbor bonus than Central or East African, which have an identical "player is only person teching competently" with a longer lag on decent neighbors.

 

[Trin Tragula]

You still get neighbor bonus on nations you physically neighbor, best I can tell,

Indeed. As was always the case.

 

[SolSys]

I looked it, and i see that western army better than anatolian and eastern

Which means you only glanced at the graphs and didn't check the details.
They are stronger only past tech level 18 and even then only by 1-2 pips; which, frankly, undermines your whole argument.

 

[Ratanka]

It was mistake delete westernisation, becouse other culture groups have weak army that cant fight against western nations. So you need back it, without this game for ottomans or russia impossible, they really can do nothing to europeans. I think would be fine if you also removed nessecity in weakness of technologies and invent something new in requirements to westernisation. Without this game will lose historical reliability becouse Russia did in history westernisation and Ottomans also tryed to do it

Now about institutes. I think now they spread so slowly in Europe and so fast in other world. So i offer change speed of spreading institutes faster in start of them and slowly and slowly at a distanse of institute center, becouse now chineese countries have same technologies as european nations or near of it and with their grand armies player cant conquer them (at least ottomans exactly not)

P.S. Why ai countries can have armies bigger than lets their income? My AI-Austry that i deprived italian and netherland territories and emperor status have army bigger than mine, when i have earnings of Egypt, Persia and India. And its impossible to have this army even if they reduced maintenance at their situation.

Im new here so if i create theme in wrong blog, please, transfer my message in right place. Thanks

ottomans cant fight europeans ? ... ottomans are stronger then ever before and in players hand even more

PS: westernisation NOT changed unit types to western since ... 2015 ?

 

[Mike1984]

You still get neighbor bonus on nations you physically neighbor, best I can tell. Since Ottomans can be pitching a tent near or inside HRE territory and Italy pretty early on, they're better off now than before, especially since they don't pay extra 25% cost/tech up front.

Regardless, it's hard to buy that Anatolian is actually worse for neighbor bonus than Central or East African, which have an identical "player is only person teching competently" with a longer lag on decent neighbors.

Yes, the Ottomans' location in the world makes them somewhat better off than nations further to the East. Nevertheless, the tech group itself is awful. They would be literally better off in any other tech group, at least in that regard (I'm not sure how the units really compare).

 

[Makcum1453]

In the late game, yes. But it's not an overwhelming advantage. And, as others have said, Westernising has not changed your unit type for a long time. A Westernised Ottomans still used Anatolian units. The only thing that tech group still affects is the technology adjacency bonus (in which regard, the Ottomans have been seriously nerfed, their tech group is now one of the worst, since they are the only ones in it and, thus, get no bonuses).

I think need give ability to change other culture army to western army like it was in history

 

[Dakka]

Native americans have a religion reform that is currently insanely overpowered. As soon as they have a neighbor with Feudalism they get:
- Lose primitve status instantly (no more exploration cb)
- Embrace all institutions of that neighbor instantly everywhere (since that guy is certain to have colonialism and renassiance, that at least 3)
- Get technologies for free

Worst thing about that: This works recursively. As soon as one native reform his religion, his neighbor can do this was well... This is no problem with inca, maya, azteks who actually have to do something for their reform, but it is really needs to be fixed for the other natives...

@Trin Tragula will something be done about this next patch? It makes finishing the exploration ideas kind of lack luster

 

[wingzero890]

Westernization should return as a decision to replace ROTW units with western units.

 

[Reverend Belial]

You kidding me? If Westernization was still a thing then I wouldn't have been able to steal Colonialism out from under Castille as Mali, or becoming a Great Power. As an almost exclusively ROTW player, I love this.

 

[Trin Tragula]

PS: westernisation NOT changed unit types to western since ... 2015 ?

Can't check now but before I started here I think, so more than 2 years ago.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Westernization should return as a decision to replace ROTW units with western units.

Who has switched to western units in EU4 time frame?