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Magnificent Genius

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While not in the actual timeline of EU4, the US did this in the Mexican-American War. America took nearly half of Mexico, but it gave Mexico money when it really did not have to. Everyone here is talking about province trades but really the winner should be able to give money in order to take more (provided the looser still exists after the war).

Probably the most historically relevant example. I could see giving ducats to gain warscore at the peacedeal screen as something that could be implemented without too much possibility for human over ai abuse, and it is easy for the ai to understand. Who is in charge of ai? We should ask them about the feasability.
 

Metz

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While it sounds cool on paper, this isn't going to happen. There is no reasonable way to implement it against AI which isn't just a way to screw them over with our superior human brains. Against the humans it's redundant since humans can make such give-and-take procedures outside of war. In both cases too, it's a lot of extra work for very little gain.

You guys should have this discussion in one of your meetings and brainstorm a way to make it work. Perhaps dynamic values of provinces in the war score based on proximity and development when compared to the development of the receiving nation.
 
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brifbates

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There is no way to make it work that isn't open to abuse. As soon as one player figures out the ai trigger(s) and posts it somewhere the game-meisters will figure out a way to take massive advantage of it.

Take the $$$ for War score thing... Build up cash because it's easy, go to war, get 10 WS, go to peace screen, throw gobs of cash at ai and buy them down to fort-less OPM, one month later break truce, annex, get your cash back in 100% peace deal... Sure you'll lose some due to the mechanics of cash demands but the point remains.

To protect the ai from abuse there would have to be so many restrictions placed on the function that it may as well not exist and the time and effort spent implementing the system and, more importantly, the ai would be much better spent in other areas.
 
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Magnificent Genius

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There is no way to make it work that isn't open to abuse. As soon as one player figures out the ai trigger(s) and posts it somewhere the game-meisters will figure out a way to take massive advantage of it.

Take the $$$ for War score thing... Build up cash because it's easy, go to war, get 10 WS, go to peace screen, throw gobs of cash at ai and buy them down to fort-less OPM, one month later break truce, annex, get your cash back in 100% peace deal... Sure you'll lose some due to the mechanics of cash demands but the point remains.

To protect the ai from abuse there would have to be so many restrictions placed on the function that it may as well not exist and the time and effort spent implementing the system and, more importantly, the ai would be much better spent in other areas.

Well, I was thinking about this while I was walking to Dunkin, and it would make the most sense to limit warscore able to be bought by ducats to a certain amount. For example, you could buy up to 25 percent of whatever warscore you have. So if you have fifty warscore, you can buy ten(ish), if you have ten, you can buy two.
 

Chief of Staff

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This suggested feature could at least be implemented for between human players only for now in MP, and maybe Paradox could take some notes from these and maybe learn something from these interactions and use them to apply it to AI. Just a thought. But the chance of AI being able to handle it competently before the end of EU4 lifecycle is probably low. We'll see... maybe one day in future generation of Europa Universalis...
 
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Freudia

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Probably the most historically relevant example. I could see giving ducats to gain warscore at the peacedeal screen as something that could be implemented without too much possibility for human over ai abuse, and it is easy for the ai to understand. Who is in charge of ai? We should ask them about the feasability.

That would be Chaingun currently and I believe he's already said it's a whole lot of work for very little gain in a past thread on this topic.
 

Martin_Mortyry

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This suggested feature could at least be implemented for between human players only for now in MP, and maybe Paradox could take some notes from these and maybe learn something from these interactions and use them to apply it to AI. Just a thought. But the chance of AI being able to handle it competently before the end of EU4 lifecycle is probably low. We'll see... maybe one day in future generation of Europa Universalis...
Then the EUIV's implementation of the mechanic would do for V's beta. Nothing wrong with that if you ask me, IMO it's good to let wider public test some mechanics way before finalizing them, especially such noninvasive ones.
 

Pellucid

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While it sounds cool on paper, this isn't going to happen. There is no reasonable way to implement it against AI which isn't just a way to screw them over with our superior human brains. Against the humans it's redundant since humans can make such give-and-take procedures outside of war. In both cases too, it's a lot of extra work for very little gain.
I feel like you could theoretically make it work, but it may not be worth the effort. That is to say, if you could teach the AI what things it should actually view as worthless or near-worthless (and would therefore always be willing to give up), that wouldn't be TOO hard, but that wouldn't really make the game that much more fun (since such a small percentage of things are "worthless" in general) and the effort would likely be wasted.
 

bbqftw

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The AI can't even value provinces it sets as vital interest as something that it wants to accept in peace deals, I think getting it to the advanced level of understanding required for something like this to work as a pipe dream.
 
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Xinkc

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While it sounds cool on paper, this isn't going to happen. There is no reasonable way to implement it against AI which isn't just a way to screw them over with our superior human brains. Against the humans it's redundant since humans can make such give-and-take procedures outside of war. In both cases too, it's a lot of extra work for very little gain.

Well, couldn't you guys start with making the warscore cost in a peace deal persistent between the taking and giving tabs? You could then inverse the war score from the "giving" tab and potentially decrease the now negative warscore cost by 20-30% when one is making a peace deal when they have positive warscore. The modifiers for acceptance of a peace deal are similar between the two tabs and the AI currently can tell what it generally would accept.

It would involve making the ability to give or take in peace deals be non-mutually exclusive (which I'm sure is no small task), changing of the UI so as to make this new ability clear (also, not a small task), plus some playing around with numbers and testing to make sure things don't go catastrophically wrong (or just work correctly). Maybe this is too much to ask.
 

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The game doesn`t provide any reason to have such treaties, in fact, game mechanics actively discourages you to give up any provinces, since you already paid to core them. Also, any nation that has "your" cores more or less ends up on the "decimate ASAP" list, because you don`t have to pay admin cost for province that is already your core.

Then, obviously, the game has to provide insight on why and what would a country want to gain something from you if it lost. How is it supposed to defend the new gains? What potential consequences should there be? In what case should a country flat out refuse such trade? Imagine the obvious exploits like having Great Britain give up a province on island, so you could pre-emptively ship your army there, colonial nations giving up a province in their colonies, so a land power simply ships it`s super army into new world and goes for conquest spree, ignoring the need for navy entirely...

Current system, although quite rough, works pretty well. You can only take what you can actually conquer, and peace treaty doesn`t allow any kind of unfair exchange, because, there is no exchange at all, winner takes, loser gives.

While this is true now, Territorial cores are cheaper but get removed on province loss.
 

Willem IV

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There is no way to make it work that isn't open to abuse. As soon as one player figures out the ai trigger(s) and posts it somewhere the game-meisters will figure out a way to take massive advantage of it.

Take the $$$ for War score thing... Build up cash because it's easy, go to war, get 10 WS, go to peace screen, throw gobs of cash at ai and buy them down to fort-less OPM, one month later break truce, annex, get your cash back in 100% peace deal... Sure you'll lose some due to the mechanics of cash demands but the point remains.

To protect the ai from abuse there would have to be so many restrictions placed on the function that it may as well not exist and the time and effort spent implementing the system and, more importantly, the ai would be much better spent in other areas.
Just remove Cash from the give-take peace deals, only cash in a take peace deal. Maybe just limited the possibilities in a give-take peace deal, as province only feature.
 

Quaade

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While it sounds cool on paper, this isn't going to happen. There is no reasonable way to implement it against AI which isn't just a way to screw them over with our superior human brains. Against the humans it's redundant since humans can make such give-and-take procedures outside of war. In both cases too, it's a lot of extra work for very little gain.
I have likewise suggested this could be done in that every province you exchang would value half of it´s cost, so essentially you as a player would have to give up twice the amount of provinces to gain one, and if you don´t lessen AE when trading provinces I have a hard time believing the superior human brain would use this often, since you effectively lose more than you get and don´t decrease AE at the same time...
 

Simoleum

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While it sounds cool on paper, this isn't going to happen. There is no reasonable way to implement it against AI which isn't just a way to screw them over with our superior human brains. Against the humans it's redundant since humans can make such give-and-take procedures outside of war. In both cases too, it's a lot of extra work for very little gain.
Can't the only things to be given in a peace deal (if you are the one taking most) be cores and war reperations? Several times in history, the nation who conquers an area has payed indemnities to the nation it conquered it from, as part of the deal.

I also miss status quo peace, which would make all areas occupied become part of the occupying nation (as opposed to, and an addition to, the status quo ante bellum, white peace that is now)