Gifting works in revierse

[Bertouch]

Posted this earlier, here:

Twice now I've gifted cities to counts. In both instances their opinion of my king was low but positive, and the information on the diplomatic screen indicated their opinions would rise by 20. Instead, they dropped by 40.

My details were a bit off, but here's all the data:

Had a mayor, Toke of Sigtuna, while playing Sweden. His opinion of my monarch is -37. Modifiers:

State Diplomacy: +20
Long Reign: +1
Raised Levies: -4
Elective Succesion: +20
Infidel: -30
Liege is Kind: +10
Zealous: -50
Zealous vs Cynical: -10
Prestige: +6

Now, I gift him with the County of Aland. Its capital is a castle. I click to offer it. The game tells me, "Grant the County of Aland to Mayor Toke, increasing his opinion of you by 40."

I grant it. His opinion drops to -62.

His modifiers now add to the others from before:

Desires the Duchy of Uppland: -20
Granted a County: +40
Elector Titles Held: -15
Wrong Government Type: -30

A couple of things: the "desires the Duchy of Uppland" part is weird, since he's Temperate, Charitable, Shy, Humble, Zealous, Hunchback, and a Brilliant Strategist: 0/18/5/2/6. If he were Ambitious, one might expect the desire to own the full Duchy to kick in soon, not at once, but not some guy who is humble. Should take longer. Plus, the "elector titles held" doesn't seem to make much sense. And finally, the Diplomatic Screen message quoted above is wrong, even if the rest is correct.

 

[Dragnar]

The message is correct. Giving him the county raised his opinion by 40 points. It's right there in the list.
Yes, as a count he now cares about stuff he didn't care about before, so his aggregated opinion is actually lower than it was before, but none of those modifiers are a surprise.

It may be a bit counter-intuitive at first, but "raises his opinion by 40 points" doesn't mean he'll necessarily end up with an opinion 40 points higher. It just means the act itself gives a +40 opinion modifier.

 

[the_legion]

Desires the Duchy of Uppland: -20 <<< You granted him a single county. Counts allways want controll over their duchy.
Granted a County: +40 <<< Thats obvious
Elector Titles Held: -15 <<< By granting a barony-tier guy a county he changes his main title. If that main title is an elective reign you get a penalty for to many duchy-titles held.
Wrong Government Type: -30 <<< You granted a lowborn a castle. Castles are supposed to be ruled by feudal lords. You'll allways get this negative modifier if you're the direct liege of a mayor/bishop.

Everything WAD as far as I can tell, that was just the wrong county/barony given to the wrong guy.

 

[MasterofMagic]

The message is correct. Giving him the county raised his opinion by 40 points. It's right there in the list.
Yes, as a count he now cares about stuff he didn't care about before, so his aggregated opinion is actually lower than it was before, but none of those modifiers are a surprise.

It may be a bit counter-intuitive at first, but "raises his opinion by 40 points" doesn't mean he'll necessarily end up with an opinion 40 points higher. It just means the act itself gives a +40 opinion modifier.

Tell me/us where is this explained in the tutorial or manual?

 

[Letar]

There doesn't seem to be a bug here so moving the discussion to general discussion.

 

[Dragnar]

Tell me/us where is this explained in the tutorial or manual?

Nowhere, I'd wager. Paradox games have always been too complex to teach everything in the manual.
That's part of what the forum is for. Asking questions.
If I came off as snarky in my quoted answer, I apologize. The intend was simply to explain what's going on and why there's no bug.

 

[Harle]

It's the 'Wrong Government Type' that I think is the sticking point. If it weren't for that it wouldn't be a big deal.

I think the essence of it is that you are granting a county to a lowborn. I'm not sure why that would lower his opinion of you - if anything it should lower your other vassals' opinion of you. Or maybe it represents something else, I'm not sure.

I know that I've had, in Ireland, the province of Orland (I think it is?) which has only a city and is run by a mayor. I vassalized him and he always had the -30 Wrong Government Type modifier. Which I always assumed meant that his position doesn't quite fit into the feudal architecture of the rest of the kingdom. But using that line of thinking, if you were to grant him the county... wouldn't that make him a feudal lord and thus eliminate the wrong government type?

Right now the only thing you can do is revoke his title, build a castle, and grant the castle to someone else.

 

[robc04]

Nowhere, I'd wager. Paradox games have always been too complex to teach everything in the manual.
That's part of what the forum is for. Asking questions.
If I came off as snarky in my quoted answer, I apologize. The intend was simply to explain what's going on and why there's no bug.

Then it should be at least included in the tooltip that appears before you give him the city. You shouldn't have to give him the city to see what opinion penelties you will get. The tooltip should show what will happen if you complete the action, not just a portion of the results. Otherwise a player has to try and remember what all of the complex rules and if they are too complex to be documented the player should be expected to commit them to memory!

 

[zedyue]

One way to solve this is to gift areas to people rather than individual provinces. If I want to give a province in there to a heir who wants land, I'm going to pause, give him the province, then give him the duchy, with the tic-box selected that gives him ALL THE LOWER TITLES in that duchy. People like getting land, but they want the entire duchy if possible. As a king, you want to keep 2-4 entire duchies for yourself depending on your maximum, and give entire duchies to people who like you. Sure this makes them a little strong, but it makes them very very loyal for a long time. As long as you limit them to one duchy you should be fine.

Basically you still have vassals in bishops or whatever that by land rights should be his vassals. You gave him land but none of the people on it.

Give him the entire duchy of Aland. Giving provinces is bad.