If Axis control Gibraltar they block canal access to Allies fleet or they still can enter to Mediterranean Sea?
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Gibraltar
- Thread starter Suor
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Well the Axis would have to control both Gibraltar and one side of the Suez canal in order to totally block off the Mediterranean, but yes, owning Gibraltar blocks that entrance.
Oh, right, Suez! I forgot that Suez was already built))))
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They don't have to control Gibraltar. They can block the Strait by controlling either side.
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I hope it works that way because before you had to control only one side for every strait. Just one province was defined as a blocker. There was a long discussion back in a day about straits in general and how the mechanics should work.
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If you controll a strait your enemies surface ships wont be able to pass through. Submarines however will be able to pass through. This depends on the type of strait tho, since canals wont even allow submarines to pass through for obvious reasons.
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To go towards reality, there should be some mechanic where there's some chance of safely running the blockade vs being intercepted and attacked. It should be possible for some fraction of submarines to be able to run through Gibraltar, even if it has to be at night.
Edit: I see @LordOfWar16 had a detail I was looking for
Edit: I see @LordOfWar16 had a detail I was looking for
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Thanks for the screenshot I didnt realise it was broken into 4 categories of shipping with your relationship to the controler and whether it was a canal or strait deciding what could pass. It seems like quite an improvement on HOI3If you controll a strait your enemies surface ships wont be able to pass through. Submarines however will be able to pass through. This depends on the type of strait tho, since canals wont even allow submarines to pass through for obvious reasons.
I take it "Armies can pass" would refer to troop transport convoys.
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I would think that not all "straits" would be the same when it comes to submarines. I cannot imagine a hostile sub being able to sneak through the Suez or Panama Canals. However, in 1940, 28 out of 28 Italian submarines (all of them) were able to rebase from the Mediterranean to Bordeaux through Gibraltar.
At Gibraltar artillery can easily cover the entire strait, even 3" cannons let alone larger caliber. Trying to get a ship through would be suicide.
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You're just not using the right ships.
I'm kidding, of course. Although I'd love to see a fictional account of the Italians trying to silence the guns with their capital ships. It would be epic... until the RN showed up.
Surface ships, yes. Submarines, not necessarily. Submerged U-boats could enter the Mediterranean through Gibraltar with about 25% losses.
You know, that's not the most encouraging statistic.
"25% of you won't live to even see us start hunting convoys in the body of water to which we are sailing."
"Are we fighting a war where disease will kill a lot of us? I know in the old days, disease killed a lot of people during wars."
"Nope. Those are the anticipated losses just for sailing past Gibraltar. We anticipate about half you will be killed by Hedgehog and planes using RADAR."
"Can we at least have some FlaK U-boats covering us?"
"They don't work either."
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@Secret Master, in that case you don't want to hear about the loss rate by the end of the war. The common number is that 2/3rds of U-boats were lost, but that number includes boats used in training in the Baltic. From 1939 to early 1943, U-boats on combat patrols tended to have a 10% loss rate. By 1945, U-boats on combat patrols had a 90% loss rate.
Oh, I know all that. It's a bit of gallows humor to talk about losses before you even get into the area of a naval patrol.
The U-boat service really took it hard as the war went on. Between better ASW, ENIGMA, air superiority, closing the Atlantic Gap, Germany's lack of resources, torpedo failures, Allied material superiority, the failure to put better U-boats into production sooner, and a whole list of other factors I don't have time to mention, it's amazing the U-boat service had any morale at all by 1944.
While it's apocryphal, the ending to Das Boot shows the desperate situation well. They get home alive after almost getting sunk trying to pass Gibraltar, only to have Allied aircraft kill them the moment they get ashore.
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Would be interesting if it worked akin to fortresses' zone of control in EU4. As in, the ability to block a strait or approach depends on the fort level of the blocking province or provinces. If you have a strong enough fleet, you can attempt to assault the forts and fight your way through, in what would essentially be a battle between the ships and the forts' guns. This could also be used in Norwegian fjords to simulate those battles between defense forts and German war ships in 1940.
Fort level could also influence how easily subs could sneak through.
Fort level could also influence how easily subs could sneak through.