Gibraltar

[harrymanback]

This is presumably much discussed already, but the search on this forum appears to be a load of crap, so...

Am I right in thinking that the only way to capture Gibraltar as the Axis is to invade Spain? Seems a bit nuts, especially given how important Gibraltar is as the key to breaking out of the Med. As Italy I managed to kick the Allies out, but can't progress further. Even though Nationalist Spain is sympathetic to the Axis I can't get them in the alliance because they already have their own one with Portugal, and a sea invasion of Gibraltar isn't possible. I tried the 'acceptall' cheat to get military access from Spain as a workaround, but you can't launch an attack from such territory.

There should be a legit means of taking Gibraltar that doesn't require an invasion of Spain (maybe there is?).

 

[Gringoesteban]

The situation you describe seems realistic/historical. IRL the Germans could not attack Gibraltar because they could not convince Franco to join the Axis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Felix

In AoD your options are:
1) You could land paratroopers on Gibraltar.
2) Conquer Spain.
3) Get Nationalist Spain to join the Axis.

 

[unmerged(160821)]

Invade nat spain then once gibralter is yours re release nat spain as a puppet

 

[Walter Hames]

It seems years ago that Blue Emu wrote a thread called "The Anschluss of Everybody." In his scheme, he allies with Austria by February, 1936, then attacks Hungary. Austria will annex Hungary and Italy will declare war on you. Beat them up and accept the second or third peace offer. You should be at peace by the Spainish Civil War. At this point, I have tried a new tactic. I run my supplies very low by giving them to Austria and after the SCW event, to Republican Spain. I make a save game around July 16, 1936, so that I can cheat and redo if the Republicans don't get Madrid. When I get the option to support Nationalist Spain, I do. But with almost no supplies, they get steamrolled pretty fast. If the Republicans slow down, open negotiations and give them Supplies and Oil. Some time in early 1937, I keep an eye on Spain, and ally with Nationalist Spain when they lose their last VP province, but before they are annexed. Acceptall will be required even then to ally. The Republicans will annex and you will be at war with them on the cheap, but most importantly all you conquer will be German. You will need transports and alot of the army to invade and to beat them, but it really builds up the experience. Annex and release Nationlist Spain and your belligerence zeros out. Remember to kick Austria out of the alliance in February 1938. At Anschluss, you gain Austria and Hugary and most of Italy, to go with the faithful Spainish. When war breaks out, run one armour corp to Paris from Bilbao, some cavalry from Barcelona all over southern France, and some infantry into Gibraltar. It's gamey and abusive and vile, and sometimes France falls before Poland, but you are the evil one. Now if only the MR Pact would last more than 6 days, and the partisans levels weren't in the 30-40% range...

 

[past caring]

As I have found out to my cost, playing as UK it is quite easy to intervene in SCW and get Republican Spain to ally. I say "found out to my cost" because Republican Spain won the SCW with my assistance, but it is now spring 1940, France has fallen, Germany has taken the whole of the French Atlantic coast for itself, invaded Spain via Bilbao and is now rapidly steamrollering south towards Gibralter - I'm not going to be able to stop them.

So maybe start the game as Germany and set up your economy, save and reload as UK to get intervention and alliance Republican Spain, ensure their victory in SCW then save and reload as Germany. Should only be late 1936 at most and you will still have plenty of time to prepare......UK and Republican Spain should stay allied.

 

[harrymanback]

Thanks for thoughts. I guess at least the paratrooper option means there is one legit means, even if in reality it would be an insane amount of resources to spend on capturing one territory, and given that it was protected by I think 7 inf/mil divisions at lot of the paras wouldn't be coming home again.

In the context of my game the reason it was so silly was that the Axis had the Russians beat, and had cleared the Allies out of Africa and Asia. In that situation I think Franco would have undoubtedly agreed to let the Axis take Gibraltar using Spanish territory, given the alternative...

 

[Kelvin]

Thanks for thoughts. I guess at least the paratrooper option means there is one legit means, even if in reality it would be an insane amount of resources to spend on capturing one territory, and given that it was protected by I think 7 inf/mil divisions at lot of the paras wouldn't be coming home again.

In my experience, 3x Par-Eng can take out a garrison or two, but they'll get annihilated against 1xInf + 1xGar. So yes, it's expensive. The other strategy would be to take Suez and use the Gibraltar as a choke point for sinking British convoys, both with subs and with NAVs operating from Bordeaux and other western French provinces.

 

[jonesuk]

Thanks for thoughts. I guess at least the paratrooper option means there is one legit means, even if in reality it would be an insane amount of resources to spend on capturing one territory, and given that it was protected by I think 7 inf/mil divisions at lot of the paras wouldn't be coming home again.

In the context of my game the reason it was so silly was that the Axis had the Russians beat, and had cleared the Allies out of Africa and Asia. In that situation I think Franco would have undoubtedly agreed to let the Axis take Gibraltar using Spanish territory, given the alternative...

The German Intel chief Canaris was giving Franco false intel that worked to prevent Franco joining the Axis. Canaris was a goddamned traitor. /true story

 

[unmerged(140582)]

Damn those evil German resistance heroes!

 

[jonesuk]

Nonsense. Canaris was part of the rebel alliance and a traitor. Take him away!

 

[unmerged(151142)]

Why necessarily Gibraltar? Take Suez instead, it is way easier to succeed, it opens the Axis options towards the oil in the Middle East and you can send your subs thru the Red Sea for the Allied convoy route around Africa. Also from my experience a neutral Franco Spain is the best thing that can happen to you as Axis player later in the game.

 

[Serenissima]

Gibraltar was historically considered pretty impossible to capture, so it's not surprising, to me!

 

[Rommel30]

Nonsense. Canaris was part of the rebel alliance and a traitor. Take him away!

:rofl:

 

[unmerged(59184)]

You can ally nat Spain during the scw, by getting relations up, and declaring war on rep Spain. You will take a dissent hit and belliggerence but not too much.

 

[unmerged(214360)]

On that note, as USSR, can u DW on Nat Spain and be able to ally RepSpain? Is there any way you can ensure Rep Spain Wins war? I think the provinces are split randomly....

 

[unmerged(140582)]

You can always try to intervene military. That makes victory for Rep. Spain pretty much a certainty. Should be possible with the Soviet Union.

 

[Tuscan]

Why necessarily Gibraltar? Take Suez instead, it is way easier to succeed, it opens the Axis options towards the oil in the Middle East and you can send your subs thru the Red Sea for the Allied convoy route around Africa. Also from my experience a neutral Franco Spain is the best thing that can happen to you as Axis player later in the game.

Taking out both Gibraltar and the Suez is good because you can turn the med into your only little Axis pond, locking out the British fleets. Or you can try it the other way round, and trap the British fleets inside the med. The fleet will eventually starve, but it takes ages.

 

[unmerged(214360)]

Taking out both Gibraltar and the Suez is good because you can turn the med into your only little Axis pond, locking out the British fleets. Or you can try it the other way round, and trap the British fleets inside the med. The fleet will eventually starve, but it takes ages.

It won't starve if brits can supply a coastal prov in africa and then connect that proince to another coastal province in Med...

 

[Tuscan]

It won't starve if brits can supply a coastal prov in africa and then connect that proince to another coastal province in Med...

Obviously your aim is to make sure there are no coastal provinces left in north africa still in Britain's hands which is relatively easy if you dedicate some troops to the Italian African campaign.

 

[Kelvin]

Taking out both Gibraltar and the Suez is good because you can turn the med into your only little Axis pond, locking out the British fleets. Or you can try it the other way round, and trap the British fleets inside the med. The fleet will eventually starve, but it takes ages.

It won't work as there is a bug that makes the british fleet never lose supplies and oil, even with the Med completely closed off (ie: Axis holding both exits and all coastal provinces).

Trapping them outside the Med is a nice way to free the Italian fleet (and especially their submarine fleet) for duties in the Atlantic and Indian ocean.