Gibraltar looks too damn big on the map!!!

[SpanglishEmpire]

The runway was built during WW2 it was actually marshland before that and very difficult to cross that and the gun positions within the rock itself overlooking all that flatland was why the Spanish could never take it.

The province is Cadiz the pic above is best at representing the true province alignment (states) In reality the actual city of Cadiz is off to the west but algeciras, la linea (the border town with gib) are all within the state of cadiz and the region of andalucia.

I think it would of been a river crossing in reality, Its funny since this thread has been up here I keep thinking about the what ifs, Could Nat Spain have taken the rock (I don't think so if where the cannons were they mounted modern artillery in the tunnels) They would never have been able to cross where the runway is, Any artillery would be able to shoot down covering the entire battlefield and nobody would be able to aim high enough to return fire.

Also whatever is going to be the neighboring province should be a fort as the bunkers from WW2 are still here though it would be a low level fort (lvl1) as there are only around 6 or 7 bunker complexes still around (They have used 1 as a sort of tourist attractions, The others weirdly are just sort of ignored like they are not there, fenced in with big apartment blocks built alongside although it was nothing. all the firing ports are bricked up to stop people getting in.

 

[FOARP]

I'll just leave this creenshot of Hearts of Iron : Darkest Hour

I honestly don't know why the devs don't use some of the great ideas that were used in previous hoi games

Because it's not a great idea to have provinces hanging in mid-air like that, and totally doesn't work with a 3D map.

 

[tommylotto]

I am not so hung up on visual accuracy as I am on functional accuracy. I can deal with it if the coastline is not perfect, but get the adjacencies right. Gibraltar should be one province and should only be connected to Spain by one province. I too am a big fan of variable frontage. I realize that would create about 100,000 data entry points, but if you default it to 10 and it only changes if a data point is entered then it would not be too much work. You could enter a data point for Gibraltar, pacific islands, and certain notoriously narrow mountain passes, and leave everything else at default 10. Then the modding community would probably fill in the rest of the globe in time for the first DLC. Gibraltar shouldn't require a huge stack of division to adequately defend.

 

[Joppos]

Gibraltar shouldn't require a huge stack of division to adequately defend.

More importantly, it shouldn't be possible to have a huge stack there at all. Would even two generic ww2 divisions effectively fit there in reality?

 

[CanOmer]

I'll just leave this creenshot of Hearts of Iron : Darkest Hour

I honestly don't know why the devs don't use some of the great ideas that were used in previous hoi games

I like DH map in general but this is terrible idea.

It should be as small as Malta:

Spoiler

 

[SpanglishEmpire]

More importantly, it shouldn't be possible to have a huge stack there at all. Would even two generic ww2 divisions effectively fit there in reality?

How big do you think Gibraltar is?

Its just me and the office cleaner nobody else will fit in, when I finish work and leave the doorman will let someone else in.

You could cram a couple of 100k troops here if you really wanted the rock though massive is hollow I have been through most of it when working for a construction company years ago.

The current pop is 30k and has been for years, they were all kicked out during ww2 so thats 2 divisions comfortably without bothering to use military facilities.

Ok not 200k thats extreme, But there were 10k during WW2 and that was nearly all military personnel, You would be housing everyone with the town itself or inside the rock but you could approach 100k people i think, Inside there is a hospital which was built during ww2 they found out later that wounds didnt heal in the damp conditions in there! and as for province width that would probably be a 1 any more and you would be swimming in either side.

 

[tommylotto]

Here is the garrison at the height of British paranoia about a German move on Gibraltar through Spain (Operation Felix):
The British garrison: Spring 1941
2nd Battalion, The King's Regiment
2nd Battalion, Somerset Light Infantry
4th Battalion, The Black Watch (from July 1940)
4th Battalion, Devonshire Regiment (from July 1940)
3rd Heavy Regiment, Royal Artillery, with 8 x 9.2 inch, 7 x 6 inch and 6 x twin 6 pounder coast artillery guns
10th Anti Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery, with 4 x 3 inch, 4 x 3.7 inch, and 2 x 2 pounder anti-aircraft guns
82nd Heavy AA Regiment, Royal Artillery, (from July 1940), with 16 x 3.7 inch guns, 8 x 40mm 40mm Bofors AA guns and radar
3rd Searchlight Battery, Royal Artillery.[10]
"Special Detachment" of No. 1 Tunnelling Company, Royal Canadian Engineers (from November 1940)
No. 2 Tunnelling Company, Royal Canadian Engineers (from March 1941)[11]
Royal Engineers, Royal Signals and supporting arms.

4 battalions of infantry and 3 battalion sized artillery regiments.

Speaking of limited frontage, the Germans seemed to have devised a special assault division with lots of fire power but only two frontage to make the assault on the Rock.
49 Gebirgsarmeekorps or Army Mountain Corps (forming the assault force); General Ludwig Kübler

Grossdeutschland Infantry Regiment
98th Regiment of the 1st Mountain Division
26 medium and heavy artillery battalions
3 observation battalions
3 engineer battalions
2 smoke battalions
Regiment Brandenburg (detachment of 150)
Up to 150 remotely controlled Goliath tracked mines[5]

 

[seattle]

Because it's not a great idea to have provinces hanging in mid-air like that, and totally doesn't work with a 3D map.

It's perfect for 3d, they'd just have to ship the game with 3d glasses and print a tiny disclaimer that HoI4 only works on 3d-monitors.

 

[Darkath]

It's perfect for 3d, they'd just have to ship the game with 3d glasses and print a tiny disclaimer that HoI4 only works on 3d-monitors.

Stereoscopy =/= 3D.

 

[nikosmy]

My guess is that they made it this big to make it two provinces, and they made it two provinces so it is possible to half own it allowing both sides ships to move through. Great work PDS

 

[varsovie]

My guess is that they made it this big to make it two provinces, and they made it two provinces so it is possible to half own it allowing both sides ships to move through. Great work PDS

Wait what???

 

[Qemarar]

Hey I have an idea, how about you guys just MOD IT WHEN THE GAME COMES OUT?!

Seriously, complaining about province shape or country color is literally the dumbest thing because it's the easiest for us to change. Make the devs focus on changing things we have no control over.

 

[Joppos]

How big do you think Gibraltar is?

Its just me and the office cleaner nobody else will fit in, when I finish work and leave the doorman will let someone else in.

You could cram a couple of 100k troops here if you really wanted the rock though massive is hollow I have been through most of it when working for a construction company years ago.

The current pop is 30k and has been for years, they were all kicked out during ww2 so thats 2 divisions comfortably without bothering to use military facilities.

Ok not 200k thats extreme, But there were 10k during WW2 and that was nearly all military personnel, You would be housing everyone with the town itself or inside the rock but you could approach 100k people i think, Inside there is a hospital which was built during ww2 they found out later that wounds didnt heal in the damp conditions in there! and as for province width that would probably be a 1 any more and you would be swimming in either side.

I can of course say nothing with certainty, but the mere physical possibility of cramming personnel on a 6.8 km2 area (Maybe somewhat smaller back then? The midway atoll being 6.2 for reference) should say very little of the equivalent effective number of combat personnel there. (Also consider combat and logistics equipment associated with each number of men) With such a small area, the whole place basically becomes the front and would be exposed to the enemy. To not having to design any special malus mechanics dependent on the real physical size of each small province, i say that a limit on the order of what was historical for those very small provinces is quite warranted.

But maybe pds have solved it in some other cool way.

 

[lemonsquid]

Hey I have an idea, how about you guys just MOD IT WHEN THE GAME COMES OUT?!

Seriously, complaining about province shape or country color is literally the dumbest thing because it's the easiest for us to change. Make the devs focus on changing things we have no control over.

because its easier to not have to do anything, but complain about it instead.

 

[Heatth]

because its easier to not have to do anything, but complain about it instead.

No. Because it is easier to give useful suggestions before the game is out. I will either mod it myself or use a mod that fix it when the game is out. That doesn't mean I can't give my opinion.

My guess is that they made it this big to make it two provinces, and they made it two provinces so it is possible to half own it allowing both sides ships to move through. Great work PDS

Why should it be possible to half own it? The place is tiny.

I am yet to see someone give a good reason for Gilbratar to be that big. It would help if people keep in mind you can still have a smaller Gibraltar that is still big enough to be practical on the map. The Malta comparison is a good one. Both Gibraltar and Malta are provinces in the game. The latter is many times bigger that the former. So why then Gibraltar is the bigger one in game? For that matter, Menorca is also in the game smaller than Gibraltar.

 

[Krilnik]

Hey I have an idea, how about you guys just MOD IT WHEN THE GAME COMES OUT?!

Seriously, complaining about province shape or country color is literally the dumbest thing because it's the easiest for us to change. Make the devs focus on changing things we have no control over.

HOW ABOUT WE DON'T HAVE TO MOD EVERY PARADOX MISTAKE?

Seriously, dudes. How can you support Gibraltar like this? HOW?
It looks like shit, honestly. It should be atleast chopped in half so Spain can have Cadiz. Gibraltar was even smaller in HOI3, and it worked. It really shouldn't look like it's bigger then Navarra in EU4.

 

[ringhloth]

You know, the map and the game is a WiP. Perhaps PDS just prefers to work with a giant Gibraltar, and will make it smaller on release.

 

[lemonsquid]

HOW ABOUT WE DON'T HAVE TO MOD EVERY PARADOX MISTAKE?

Seriously, dudes. How can you support Gibraltar like this? HOW?
It looks like shit, honestly. It should be atleast chopped in half so Spain can have Cadiz. Gibraltar was even smaller in HOI3, and it worked. It really shouldn't look like it's bigger then Navarra in EU4.

it dosnt look like shit... it looks like a province designed for the purpose of easy selection. If they redesign it to your request and works out fine, then good. If they leave it, then its good anyways. "Function over Form" is my motto!

 

[Heatth]

it dosnt look like shit... it looks like a province designed for the purpose of easy selection. If they redesign it to your request and works out fine, then good. If they leave it, then its good anyways. "Function over Form" is my motto!

Again, if it needed to be this big for easy selection there wouldn't be smaller provinces in the map. Nor would it be in other games also.

 

[hannibal_barca]

Hispano-phobia. Anglo-philia. The black legend. I'm tried of being seen as less than someone just because they are from north of the alps