Getting the "defender of the faith" title by acquisition rather than by money

[Connacht]

In game, if you are a christian or a muslim (any denomination) you can claim the title of Defender of the Faith in your religious menu, spending some money. You then get many bonuses, but you also have to go to war against any heathen that declares war to a country of your same religion and win, otherwise you will lose your status. The title can be assigned only to one country per time. Female rulers can't get the title for their countries.

In real history this was a title ("defensor fidei") granted by pope Leo X to Henry VIII and his wife Catherine of Aragon, for his book "the defense of the seven sacraments". A century later, Jan III Sobieski of Poland also received the title.
After the formation of the anglican church, the pope removed his title, but the english parliament gave Henry back that.

Besides, why should the other kings follow the claim of a single monarch? Why shouldn't they proclaim themselves defensores fidei as well? If a catholic OPM or even a non European country (i.e. Kongo, or converted americans) claim the title of defender of the faith, a strong catholic nation like Austria or Spain might say "meh, do you think to be credible? we would be much more respectable and serious as defenders of faith, so here we are".
Only the pope would have the authority to make such a claim for only one monarch and make the others respect the title. Protestant/reformed nations obviously wouldn't care.

Thus, IMHO, the DotF title should be obtained after you meet some criteria; your actions can give you (or remove) temporary point that modify a particular religious score, here are some examples:

+50 (converted a province)
-25 (for each of your provinces converted to another religion, even your cores under other countries)
+50 (assisted the pope in a war if catholic)
-50 (lost a war in aid of a religion fellow)
-50 (didn't answer to the pope calling for defence or for a crusade)
-200 (declared war against the pope if catholic)
+200 (declared war against the pope if protestant)
-1000 (excommunicated ruler)
+100 (controlling curia)
-100 (your rival controls the curia)
+ N (number of controlled cardinals)
+ X (total papal actions currently activated in the curia menu)
+ Y (eventually an amount of papal points or money used in the curia directly for the title, as a "free gift for the glory of the holy seat")
etc.

When the total score reaches a determined level, the pope grants you the title. This score can be shown in the religious menu, or alternatively in the curia in a similar way to the HRE menu which shows you the possibility to be elected after the current emperor dies.

However, the DotF is not elected like the emperor and is not mandatory: the pope pickes up a valid monarch who meets required criteria, and only if there is a suitable candidate; if you are protestant, you can appoint it by yourself in exchange of something (money or prestige) or your parliament can give you the title.
Every time a DotF dies or loses his title, the game checks for the best candidate, but he will be chosen only if he reaches this determined amount of points: so you won't see the less worst candidate getting the title, but only a true protector and defender of the faith.

If your monarch does too bad actions and the value drops below the minimum requirements, you lose the title until a new monarch comes out (resetting your score) or you do something for redemption. But if meanwhile another monarch meets the criteria for the title, he might be chosen. You will have to wait until he dies or loses his title.
Obviously if you convert your country, you lose the title.

Muslims could make a different equivalent action which gives a bonus or more, maybe calling it jihad or amir al-mu'mimin ("commander of the faithful"), or something else.

 

[gdj]

This is actually an interesting philosophical question on how religion was perceived at this time, or more precisely how serious the religious heads took their religion.

What you suggest is, in short summation, that the DotF-title should go to the one who deserves it most. I like the optimism in your suggestion, and the circumstances of obtaining this title as you have specified them testify of a good knowledge of the game mechanics as well.

The current system in EU4 has a much darker, cynical tone. You pay 500 gold pieces and buy the title, and your zealous-but-not-so-bright subjects are more motivated fo fight, convert etc.

Considering the time EU4 plays in, where indulgences were sold for money, where Popes sired more bastards than Screamin Jay Hawkins, where the Ottomans held a very contested claim on the Sunni Caliphate, where Protestantism formed as a reaction to the corrupt and inhumane state of the catholic church (only to see protestant states indulge themselves in slavery, triangle trade etc.), the simple-but-cynical mechanic we have now fits very well.

Also consider what the Dotf popup says: "We laugh at their pretensions". Why would anyone laugh if the title was an expression of sincere belief and awarded to deserving people only?

I therefore politely disagree with your (nevertheless sympathetic) suggestion.

 

[Connacht]

I appreciate your point of view.
Well, it is "deserved" in the eyes of the pope who grants the title (or in the eyes of those who get the title...), which doesn't mean that it is really deserved: you can support the pope in unjust wars and increase your score anyway because you sided with the papacy.
Your aim could be the title, not its true meaning, just like many kings converted only for political reasons or opportunism (Paris, is that you?) and not a sincere belief.

Actually, I also included the possibility to spend money or papal points in order to influence your chance of getting the title, the difference is that you don't simply pay and become DotF, as in real time there were other considerations (just like the title of HRE is not simply obtainable with gold, although you can gave gifts to prince electors in order to increase their support for you).
Thing is, in game anybody can simply decide to pay and get the title anytime, which isn't historically accurate. Neither it was a monarch's pretension.
Besides, it addes a strategical part where if you want to get the bonus you have to side with the pope, convert provinces etc.

 

[gdj]

You are, of course, right by stating that the current mechanic is an inaccurate simplification. This is especially true as a catholic DotF can wage war against the papacy, and ignore the relations to the pope.

However, this oversimplification may be necessary, considering that the DotF is not a catholic-only mechanic. The other abrahamic religions dont have a religious head in-game. Introducing mechanics like this would raise the question how to deal with this.

Surely a Sunni commander of the faithful is proper equivalent to a DotF, but what about the Orthodox for example? The Russian Tsars always styled themselves (both officially and inofficially) as defenders of orthodox christianity, it was used as a legitimation as late as the Crimean War, which is even beyond EU4´s timeframe. The Tsars had no need to worry about their relations to their patriarch to do so.

If we take examples like this into account, it would lead to different standards on how easy or difficult it is to obtain this (more or less) precious title...and i´m not very fond of this.

 

[Connacht]

We can model different titles, just like many other things are different between governments/religions/etc although occuping an equivalent role.
Besides, I don't remember if non abrahamic religions have currently the DotF, so it's not very important if the catholics have the title while another religion not. I also don't think that it's a problem if there are different standards about the difficulty: everything in the game has different standards, even tech progression

 

[gdj]

Besides, I don't remember if non abrahamic religions have currently the DotF, so it's not very important if the catholics have the title while another religion not.

I never claimed that they have - they actually don´t, it is only for Christians and Muslims. Orthodox are, of course, Christians, but so are Coptic Christians, Reformed etc.

I also don't think that it's a problem if there are different standards about the difficulty: everything in the game has different standards, even tech progression

Well, it´s hard to argue with that - i wouldn´t like it, but that is more a question of taste, i guess..