Getting PU diplomatically

[Dalieux]

Playing as france, I managed to put my dynasty on the thrones of bohemia and scotland, besides provence still being the same dynasty as well.

my question is, is there something I should be doing in order to get the PUs? I know I can claim the throne, but I'm aware there is a way of getting the PU diplomatically, so I'd rather follow this path then having a succession war + diplomatic malus against other countries I've royal married.

 

[Splax77]

If a country's ruler dies without an heir, one of five things will happen:

• There will be a succession war. This happens most frequently if they share a dynasty with someone, but can also happen even if they only have an RM. The conditions that determine who is the attacker and who is the defender are complicated, but usually the biggest RM partner is the defender and either the second-biggest RM partner or the biggest rival of either the defender or the the country being PU'd is the attacker.
• They will peacefully fall under a PU. This happens if there are no valid contestants for a succession war, or if you have claimed their throne.
• They will get the dynasty of their biggest RM partner, if the two countries don't currently share a dynasty, or if they are at war and would otherwise cause one of previously mentioned things to happen (you can't fall under a PU if you're at war).
• They will be straight up inherited by their biggest RM partner. This is quite rare, and can only happen to countries that are small, but it can happen.
• A local noble will rise to the throne. This will happen if they are not married to anyone.

This a massively simplified version of what happens, for more detail I would check out atwix's guide to PUs: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ages-personal-unions-and-claim-throne.788829/

Generally speaking, the most reliable way to get PUs is claim throne and force succession war right after a new ruler takes the throne, before they have a chance to get an heir. This is not always going to be possible, but it can net you quite a few PUs over the course of the game if you're lucky.

 

[Bouchart]

The Claim Throne action will guarantee you that if their ruler dies with no heir, you'll get the PU. You don't need to start a war for that to happen. But if they end up with an heir you spent 20 prestige and annoyed a bunch of people for nothing. It's best used when their ruler is old, and has a trait like Infertile.

You can't get a PU over a nation that leads a PU other than forcing it through war, or through a scripted event (like Castile over Aragon over Naples). Provence and Lorraine are probably too small to bother with a PU in any case.

There's a whole thread on here somewhere about dynasties and personal unions.

 

[Badesumofu]

They will peacefully fall under a PU. This happens if there are no valid contestants for a succession war, or if you have claimed their throne.

There can still be a succession war if you have claimed the throne, but you'll be the defender rather than the contestant. It's also possible that when the UI says there will be a succession war that the contestant will decline the glorious opportunity to be crushed by you, your new PU, and your allies.

To get a peaceful PU on someone with whom you share a dynasty - keep yourself married to them and hope they die heirless. You'll get the PU assuming they don't share that dynasty with anyone else. Someone else might contest it, but you get the PU immediately and with no 'forced us into PU' relations penalty.

I'd also say that nine times out of ten Claim Throne should only be used if you intend to immediately declare war for it. The tenth time is mostly for when you are not the highest development RM partner who shares a dynasty and you are okay with pissing a bunch of people off, potentially ending up having it challenged by someone who is stronger than you, and potentially doing all this for no return.

Search for threads created by atwix to get the full details.

 

[Badesumofu]

You can't get a PU over a nation that leads a PU other than forcing it through war, or through a scripted event (like Castile over Aragon over Naples). Provence and Lorraine are probably too small to bother with a PU in any case.

Provence can be worth it for France but I'd be aiming to ally-feed them a bit first and wait for them to integrate Lorraine. In a lot of cases it's going to make more sense to just dissolve the alliance, warn their neighbors, wait for the inevitable excommunication and then just conquer them outright.

 

[Tarkilth]

Claim Throne is incredibly useful - mainly to force people into union under you via war. For the diplomatic route as it were, it's mainly about luck once you've understood the keeping marriages part and so on. What has been mentioned otherwise does indeed however sometimes come into play. I recall a multiplayer match in which I was able to use claim throne to end up as the defending party with the union isntead of having the option to declare over it. My human opponent made the error in judgement of choosing to fight over it sparkign a large war in which he lost greatly and so the power paly of claim throne worked out. (in the situation it would have been unfeasible to declare war for the union since the alliance chains would have prevented such a forcing, i.e. gainign the union would have been too costly, nevermind that it'd require to break the alliance and wait for the truce to expire, which oftentimes leads to them getting an heir in the time it takes to wait out the truce anyway.)

 

[atwix]

Playing as france, I managed to put my dynasty on the thrones of bohemia and scotland, besides provence still being the same dynasty as well.

my question is, is there something I should be doing in order to get the PUs? I know I can claim the throne, but I'm aware there is a way of getting the PU diplomatically, so I'd rather follow this path then having a succession war + diplomatic malus against other countries I've royal married.

make those nations interesting nations and enable message setting to see their events, and their outcome.

if they ever go heirless with a young king force the Union.

if they go heirless with ruler 50+, start praying.

Always keep your relation with same dynasty and heirless allies at max so you only need to improve the final +100 when you force Union.

force Union is good as it gives little AE for the development you get.

BUT you need a relatively young ruler when you do it to give your nation the time to improve relation with negative opinion PU subject. If not at positive when your ruler dies PU goes free.

If your nation is lot bigger then same dynasty partner, claim throne is not needed to guarantee a PU on heirless ruler death.

If you are catholic and converting like mad with +prestige from conversion in age of reformation so to speak, i would claim throne all the time prestige can be regained easily, and the -50 or -100 opinion malus for claiming throne ticks away within 10-15 years.

 

[iquabakaner]

It's best used when their ruler is old, and has a trait like Infertile.

They always get a son anyway at age >70, even with infertile (at least for me).

 

[Dalieux]

thanks for the tips so far!
is it a good idea to claim throne when the target countries are allies?

 

[iquabakaner]

thanks for the tips so far!
is it a good idea to claim throne when the target countries are allies?

You should only do it for a peaceful PU. If you break the alliance there will be a 5-year truce, more than enough time for them to get an heir (unless you're super lucky). However, it is usually a good idea if your targeted country has an heir with a weak claim, in which case you should definitely break alliance and wait for the truce to end before claiming the throne, since it is much less likely for them to get an increase in heir claim (an event that is extremely rare).

 

[Dalieux]

I guess I'm still confused if I necessarily definitely HAVE to claim the throne to even have a chance of getting the PU peacefully, or if that could happen without that action by sheer game randomness...

 

[Kergan]

They always get a son anyway at age >70, even with infertile (at least for me).

Same... Old rulers have no shortage of young and talented daughters.

 

[atwix]

I guess I'm still confused if I necessarily definitely HAVE to claim the throne to even have a chance of getting the PU peacefully, or if that could happen without that action by sheer game randomness...

if heirless nation isn't married to someone bigger then you, same dynasty nations can fall in Union peacefully under other dynasty partners WITHOUT claiming their throne.

it is... complicated mechanic, which is dependant on tiers that are triggered and moved by death of the pope or some other weird stuff.

so yeah, it can be sheer randomness; if the heirless nation is in the right tier, PU at peace can happen even WITHOUT sharing dynasty or claiming throne.

its is not easy to give advice as it is dependant on the ingame situation..