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Tormodius

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I'm relatively new to the Hearts if Iron series. I don't know if Hearts of Iron 1 or 2 was easier, and they just stacked things on in addition to it so that the veteran gamers would be happy for new material or what they did. Either way, the learning curb is so tremendous that I have no idea where to start. Is it better to lower my own neutrality, and how do I do that? Is it better to try to raise the threat of my enemies? Can I even do these things efficiently as a country like Mexico on the Western Hemisphere with the USA Superpower drifting so close nearby?

Ok, the background is like this:
The threat system is a new variant of the original "war-clock" from HOI1, which just ticked down to a time where a democracy could declare war, and then on almost whomever they wanted after the clock was low enough. This worked somewhat to prevent aggressive democracies but was a poorer solution. It's now designed so democracies should not go to war early, and not with just whomever suits them. It's a bit more complex and I had to to use some time to figure how it worked... In HOI1 however there were exploits to go to war in 1936 with many democratic countries. Back then would be much easier thus to create a South American Empire and attack USA, but because of exploits that many people were mad about, they designed this to be harder i guess. But forgot maybe to mention it in tutorial?

Even USA players have problems making a DOW. I know its possible, but later in game. Personally I dont like to play any of the non-faction countries, except those who I know will likely be attacked at some point. Nat.China is a fun one but might be hard.

Keep in mind this game is very different from EU3 where you could just play ANY nation and do whatever you wanted. They do advertise playing any nation in the world is possible... Yes it is, but it can also be plain boring, so its kinda unfair using this as sales argument. Everything in the game is designed around Axis, Allies and Comintern. EU3 is much more free, Where you can DOW Spain with Navarra and get Game Over in 2 min. It's possible, but probably not fun to most people.
 
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Darkrenown

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it is easier to open your country's txt file and edit neutrality there.

find MEX - Mexico.txt in the folder

Program Files\Paradox Interactive\Hearts of Iron III\history\countries

then edit your neutrality to the point you want.

If you want to cheat it's easier still to just open the console and enter "noneutrality".
 

Revshawn

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Apparently you didnt bother reading the tutorial? It's all there pretty much on black and white. Just look at the gamersgate site were you got the game.

Except I didn't buy the game over Gamersgate, I bought it over Steam. Steam will not allow me to read the manual even though there is a clear button that says 'Read Players Manual' right there. If I already had access to the manual, I wouldn't be asking.

You can use your intelligence screen to lower your neutrality. Also concentrate on the target country and increase threat level. Now you also will have to contend with the treaty with the US. But that will eventually expire, and there are a couple of countries that aren't protected by this, I think Cuba is one example.

You're right. Cuba is one, along with Haiti and the Dominican Republic. I think that New Zealand would be great for a long-term goal, if everything goes well in Mexico and I can successfully convert Mexico to either the Axis or the Com-Intern. The most important thing is avoiding war with the USA at all costs though, until sufficient power can be gathered!

The Strategy Guide can be found here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416099

There is a very good Wiki at
http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi3wiki/Main_Page

And do not forget. Starting in 36 Mexico wouldnt be able to Warmonger much in Central America in real life either. At first the goverment of it should have difficulty to explain its people why do they want to declare war on someone. It is a long process to convince local population to convince war is necessity. Put more war loving news in internal sources and at the same time forge proofs that your intended target is the bad boy (And convince US that it is in its own self interest to support/tolerate your warmongering).

In HoI3 terms: It in general takes several year to be free to declare war: Using intelligence increase threat of your target and decrease neutrality of your own.

You might want to join Axis as well with its known consequences....

An all this not guarantee US will not intervene....

Thanks bro! I appreciate the link and the advice! And I agree with you, I know it's not really realistic! Then again, right now we have South Korea blaring western music into North Korea as part of a propaganda campaign to get their soldiers and citizens to defect. If weird stuff like that can go on over there, I have no problem with trying to raise up a 'Grand Leader' in the Western hemisphere! :p

All it takes is a little patience, and a lot of beer! The populace won't see it coming! :3

USA will most certainly interfere probably UK to since they have a shared interest there along with USA.

Conservative expansion against the smaller, sucky nations shouldn't put you at too much of a risk if you're careful and have big friends in my opinion. You can get a bit more aggressive if the US gets into a war too! :D

Don't try Spain, for all that is good in life!

The civil war is a terrible teacher for how HOI works, because there are not enough troops to build anything resembling a front.

If you want combat early, go with Hungary, and set spies to lower your neutrality.

Now, as far as complexity goes, HOI3 makes EU3 look like Risk. But, since you bought it, you can download a strategy guide from this very forum to get you started.

The game is just too complex to teach in a tutorial: You might as well ask for a 10 minute tutorial of Advanced Squad Leader.

Tell me about it. I tried the Spanish Civil War, and there is no way it's going to happen. The best strategy is to eliminate little groups of enemies bit by bit, and trap Nationalist Spain on the peninsula between Portugal and the sea. If the map goes mad for a little bit, don't worry too much! Land can always be recaptured, but once you wipe out a group of troops they're gone for good!

I'll do my best to learn the game! :D

okay guys, come on. Even if he is unfriendly let's try to help him out as good as we can:

1. The manual is available on Steam. Right click on the game in Steam and select "view player manual". If the player manual does not show up, look at the link in steam and copy it in the webbrowser. The reason for the manual not showing is steams or adobes fault, don't know. The manual is there, steam just refuses to download huge PDFs.

2. The neutrality/threat system is in place to simulate that you can't make decisions against your country. You might want to wage war against your neighbour, but, if you don't have a reason, your people, Generals, Parliament, whatever just scream "NO!!!" and you can't do it.

You want to go to war?
Two possibilities:
First: The country you want to go to war against must be a threat to you. Your people must fear the country. They must agree with your will to go to war against that country. This is simulated by threat. Your spies can increase the threat of a country (propaganda).
Second: You don't care about threat, you just want to intervene. Meaning you give up your neutrality. But this means, your country, ministers, etc must be not neutral. You have to lower your neutrality level. You can do that, again, with spies.

Now, you can declare war when your neutrality is lower than the enemies threat. So either high threat by the enemy or missing neutrality on your side allows you to declare war.

If you feel this is overly complicated, you can use the cheat mentioned above. The idea of this system is, that no unrealistic wars occur and destroy your experience of HoI3. If you want unrealistic Wars, you have to cheat.

Does this help you?

edit:
Now if you are new to HoI3, I recommend to you to play a nation that is meant to go to War, like Germany. Germany is actually very easy to play, has a well connected landmass and does not overwhelm you with a huge navy (like Italy). And after playing Germany you might appreciate the neutrality/threat system more, because it's what keeps the USA from attacking you too early or from small scale wars popping up around you.

I tried the method you used with copying/pasteing the link to my Firefox browser, and all it did was come up with an error screen. The Arobe file cannot show correctly, yada yada yada. Long story short it didn't work out.

I thought about playing Germany, but my worry with that is trying to take on the Soviet Union. The last thing I want to do is get rickrolled by the big red. That's very fun. ^^; What do you think a good level for neutrality is? I don't want to go too far and leave me vulnerable, but I don't want to spend the first 6 years of my game raising threat either! That's boring!

There are some quite interesting tutorials posted in youtube. Among some others this one seems to be very extensive, in 16 chapters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIE8bASuOtY

If you know nothing about the game you should follow some of these tutorials to get a general idea of all aspects of the game and then little by little learn the details.

The tutorials are all for Hoi3, I have not yet seen any for Semper Fi, but I guess these will appear sooner or later.

Thanks! He actually has a sequel video that he did, and I think that one includes Semper Fi. You ought to check that one out as well. I'll give this video a look and let you know what I think later! ^^

Ok, the background is like this:
The threat system is a new variant of the original "war-clock" from HOI1, which just ticked down to a time where a democracy could declare war, and then on almost whomever they wanted after the clock was low enough. This worked somewhat to prevent aggressive democracies but was a poorer solution. It's now designed so democracies should not go to war early, and not with just whomever suits them. It's a bit more complex and I had to to use some time to figure how it worked... In HOI1 however there were exploits to go to war in 1936 with many democratic countries. Back then would be much easier thus to create a South American Empire and attack USA, but because of exploits that many people were mad about, they designed this to be harder i guess. But forgot maybe to mention it in tutorial?

Even USA players have problems making a DOW. I know its possible, but later in game. Personally I dont like to play any of the non-faction countries, except those who I know will likely be attacked at some point. Nat.China is a fun one but might be hard.

Keep in mind this game is very different from EU3 where you could just play ANY nation and do whatever you wanted. They do advertise playing any nation in the world is possible... Yes it is, but it can also be plain boring, so its kinda unfair using this as sales argument. Everything in the game is designed around Axis, Allies and Comintern. EU3 is much more free, Where you can DOW Spain with Navarra and get Game Over in 2 min. It's possible, but probably not fun to most people.

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind, though I'll still try to make a Mexican Empire so that I can prove you wrong! :p
 

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You're right. Cuba is one, along with Haiti and the Dominican Republic. I think that New Zealand would be great for a long-term goal, if everything goes well in Mexico and I can successfully convert Mexico to either the Axis or the Com-Intern. The most important thing is avoiding war with the USA at all costs though, until sufficient power can be gathered!
Cuba, Haiti and Dominican Replublic. That makes 3 countries you'll declare war on. Should be more than enough for the US to declare war on you.:cool: If others (e.g. the allies) haven't done it before. :p I don't think you'll have a chance to go after New Zealand.
 

Krocsyldiphic

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I thought about playing Germany, but my worry with that is trying to take on the Soviet Union. The last thing I want to do is get rickrolled by the big red. That's very fun. ^^

You can just start up the Barbarossa Scenario as Germany and give it a try. You will get a feel for the army you need to deafeat the SU.

Actually, if you play on very easy, it's very easy. HoI3 was my first Hearts of Iron game too, and I learned it by playing Germany. If you set it to very easy and just build troops, it's actually very hard to lose. Even against the SU.

And if you just want to learn combat mechanics, you can load up a scenario of a later date. In combat, mouse-over all units and symbols, it's actually explained very well ingame.

What do you think a good level for neutrality is? I don't want to go too far and leave me vulnerable, but I don't want to spend the first 6 years of my game raising threat either!

You're not vulnerable with low neutrality. If someone wants to declare war on you, their neutrality and your threat will matter. And if you warmonger, your threat will skyrocket and pretty much everyone can declare war on you.

The threat your actions generate in another country also depends on the distance to that country. A south American country waging war will be perceived as a great threat to the USA, while the guys in Europe don't bother. A warmongering Germany will increase its threat to all neighboring countries significantly, while it only moderately affects the USA (which is why Japan usually is the biggest threat to the USA).

Threat also has an influence on the alignment of the countries in the diplomatic triangle:
If you are in a faction and generate threat, this threat is added to the threat of all other faction members. Countries that are geographically near to you will move closer to you in the triangle, meaning they align with you. Basically you threaten your neighbors to be obedient and join you. Countries that are far away from you will be pushed in the opposite direction and are likely to join a different faction.
 
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vertinox

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Except I didn't buy the game over Gamersgate, I bought it over Steam. Steam will not allow me to read the manual even though there is a clear button that says 'Read Players Manual' right there. If I already had access to the manual, I wouldn't be asking.

Hrmm... As an aside, my suggestion is to avoid buying non-valve games on steam as I've constantly run into trouble with them. Its not just Paradox games either. Usually, Steam takes a while to "get around" to fixing games that aren't theres or if its not a superstar game like CoD4... But otherwise, I go with Direct2Drive if its available or go with GamersGate if its just a Paradox game.

But I end up buying all Valve games from steam and they work fine. Though I don't know if you can buy them anywhere else. I mean I bought the orange box at a physical store and still had to download it through steam.
 

Tormodius

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Thanks! I'll keep that in mind, though I'll still try to make a Mexican Empire so that I can prove you wrong! :p

Ok good luck with that! your first attempt on this inspired me to check out Mexico. My only goal with that game yesterday was to see how fast it can drop down neutrality, and how fast it can DOW its closest neighbour Guatemala. That was possible about mid 1939, by dropping neutrality to 55 and raising their threat to about the same, all done from game start in 1936 using full lvl10 spies domestically, and on them.

Mind you, I do play with a mod called HPP that makes game more fun than vanilla, and some really cool things happened so I kept playing until summer 1940:

Guatemala had then protection guarantee by USA, as any others in the mid-american sphere. (might be the mod i use or i dont know) So throught that I was at war with USA jan 1940. At this point USA is not a very strong country in land force numbers btw ,but still strong enough against Mexico so this did not go very well. As I pushed into California all way to San Fransico, my crappy little light tanks, cav and inf forces got beaten back in almost every encounter by a few divisions of superior-tech infantry in and around Texas, and I realized i had no chance, so I asked for peace. And guess what, they gave me a white peace hahahahaha! But Guatemala was conquered so my initial goal was also complete yay. Kinda fun surprise for me this! :rolleyes:

So it was a more fun game than I thought, since I was just testing this DOW theory, but Mexico is crap anyway about leaders, leadership points etc. It's just so damn weak, also was lacking generals for units. Power is dwarfed in comparison with the USA. I am very amazed if you do manage your ambitious goal here ;)

Because it seems the game is designed to make USA very strong the more time passes , while its designed to make Mexico remain weak.
And by game start they have an unmobilized army size of about 300.000 men including a few standing divisions. This mobilizes to about a million or more in just some weeks if they have the MP pool ready for it. Mexico has about 50.000.

The most fun thing was that before the war I had Mexico become a Socialist Republic by raising dissent to about 80% and got this event:
(The HPP mod makes dissent cause higher national revoltrisk, instead of silly industry trouble)

coup_mexico.jpg


Even thought my government became Socialist it lacked socialist leaders too. Just another thing lacking.... :p
Now Im off to playing ComChi, which is awesome in this mod.
 
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Veldmaarschalk

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Not only you have online access to the manual: the Steam edition installs the manual in the game's directory.

At this point, this smells like a troll.

Don't call people trolls just because they can't find the manual
 

Revshawn

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Ok good luck with that! your first attempt on this inspired me to check out Mexico. My only goal with that game yesterday was to see how fast it can drop down neutrality, and how fast it can DOW its closest neighbour Guatemala. That was possible about mid 1939, by dropping neutrality to 55 and raising their threat to about the same, all done from game start in 1936 using full lvl10 spies domestically, and on them.

Mind you, I do play with a mod called HPP that makes game more fun than vanilla, and some really cool things happened so I kept playing until summer 1940:

Guatemala had then protection guarantee by USA, as any others in the mid-american sphere. (might be the mod i use or i dont know) So throught that I was at war with USA jan 1940. At this point USA is not a very strong country in land force numbers btw ,but still strong enough against Mexico so this did not go very well. As I pushed into California all way to San Fransico, my crappy little light tanks, cav and inf forces got beaten back in almost every encounter by a few divisions of superior-tech infantry in and around Texas, and I realized i had no chance, so I asked for peace. And guess what, they gave me a white peace hahahahaha! But Guatemala was conquered so my initial goal was also complete yay. Kinda fun surprise for me this! :rolleyes:

So it was a more fun game than I thought, since I was just testing this DOW theory, but Mexico is crap anyway about leaders, leadership points etc. It's just so damn weak, also was lacking generals for units. Power is dwarfed in comparison with the USA. I am very amazed if you do manage your ambitious goal here ;)

Because it seems the game is designed to make USA very strong the more time passes , while its designed to make Mexico remain weak.
And by game start they have an unmobilized army size of about 300.000 men including a few standing divisions. This mobilizes to about a million or more in just some weeks if they have the MP pool ready for it. Mexico has about 50.000.

The most fun thing was that before the war I had Mexico become a Socialist Republic by raising dissent to about 80% and got this event:
(The HPP mod makes dissent cause higher national revoltrisk, instead of silly industry trouble)

coup_mexico.jpg


Even thought my government became Socialist it lacked socialist leaders too. Just another thing lacking.... :p
Now Im off to playing ComChi, which is awesome in this mod.

Awesome job! :D Viva La Mexico!

I agree with you on several points. Mexico does suck! But that's what makes playing them fun! You have to learn to use what limited resources you have to their full advantage, and hope and pray that the USA doesn't decide to crush you underneath the fist of freedom! It's a shame though, that even if you can turn Mexico into a Communist or Socialist state that you don't really have any leaders that will lead your great country to greatness.

In this sense, it makes me wish that Hearts of Iron III had a way to autogenerate leaders along with the historical ones according to the political situation of the nation. That would be great!

I'm glad that my post inspired you to take out the Mala's with Mexico, and I'm even more surprised that mighty USA accepted a white peace with you! Note to self: Landrush and demand peace if ever in a war with the USA!

Good job. Stay thirsty for power my friend! *salute*

You can just start up the Barbarossa Scenario as Germany and give it a try. You will get a feel for the army you need to deafeat the SU.

Actually, if you play on very easy, it's very easy. HoI3 was my first Hearts of Iron game too, and I learned it by playing Germany. If you set it to very easy and just build troops, it's actually very hard to lose. Even against the SU.

And if you just want to learn combat mechanics, you can load up a scenario of a later date. In combat, mouse-over all units and symbols, it's actually explained very well ingame.



You're not vulnerable with low neutrality. If someone wants to declare war on you, their neutrality and your threat will matter. And if you warmonger, your threat will skyrocket and pretty much everyone can declare war on you.

The threat your actions generate in another country also depends on the distance to that country. A south American country waging war will be perceived as a great threat to the USA, while the guys in Europe don't bother. A warmongering Germany will increase its threat to all neighboring countries significantly, while it only moderately affects the USA (which is why Japan usually is the biggest threat to the USA).

Threat also has an influence on the alignment of the countries in the diplomatic triangle:
If you are in a faction and generate threat, this threat is added to the threat of all other faction members. Countries that are geographically near to you will move closer to you in the triangle, meaning they align with you. Basically you threaten your neighbors to be obedient and join you. Countries that are far away from you will be pushed in the opposite direction and are likely to join a different faction.

I know that I should load up as Germany. But at the same time....Mexico....Mexican Empire.....good god it's a terrible woe I have to go through! xD!

I'll eventually go through it and learn all the mechanics. But to be honest, I don't really expect anything out of the ordinary! Build a battle line, maintain it, and wittle down the enemy with your air force and navy! Corner enemy units and take them off the map as much as you can, at times giving up land for the bigger picture, and crush the enemy where they stand.

Thank you for the comments on threat as well! I honestly just now learned about hhow your own threat didn't factor into the calculations. This bodes well for Mexico, since in the early-game their starting Neutrality is at a high 90%! With good spywork, I can keep it that high too! >:3

How does threat calculated though? Is it according to time, lands gained, or what?

Not only you have online access to the manual: the Steam edition installs the manual in the game's directory.

At this point, this smells like a troll.

You would be wrong.

You mean like in spain? ;P

Yeah! Totally! The thing next to the thing with the other thing. You know what I'm talking about!

Hrmm... As an aside, my suggestion is to avoid buying non-valve games on steam as I've constantly run into trouble with them. Its not just Paradox games either. Usually, Steam takes a while to "get around" to fixing games that aren't theres or if its not a superstar game like CoD4... But otherwise, I go with Direct2Drive if its available or go with GamersGate if its just a Paradox game.

But I end up buying all Valve games from steam and they work fine. Though I don't know if you can buy them anywhere else. I mean I bought the orange box at a physical store and still had to download it through steam.

The reason I love valve is for the security. I can rest easy knowing that if my computer catches a virus or crashes, which can happen very soon knowing how bad my family are with computers, I can log onto my steam account and redownload any game I want. :D

So far, the only real problem I have with Valve's game was with Mass Effect. The game went so slowly it was unplayable. There is also a small glitch with Oblivion where you can exit out of a the game by clicking the upper right or left hand corners by accident, but that one can be avoided if you simply not enter Steam during a game.

Cuba, Haiti and Dominican Replublic. That makes 3 countries you'll declare war on. Should be more than enough for the US to declare war on you.:cool: If others (e.g. the allies) haven't done it before. :p I don't think you'll have a chance to go after New Zealand.

Capitalist propoganda! I'm not really worried about the other nations though, the Axis will keep them very busy. The only real threat to Mexico is USA if they get butthurt enough, and if you keep their neutrality high then you might be able to squeak through without any problems with them! :D

And as someone else has posted, in a worst case scenario it is very possible to get a white-peace from the US! That gives me hope! :D I'll get me my New Zealand yet!
 

lambrf

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Capitalist propoganda! I'm not really worried about the other nations though, the Axis will keep them very busy. The only real threat to Mexico is USA if they get butthurt enough, and if you keep their neutrality high then you might be able to squeak through without any problems with them! :D

And as someone else has posted, in a worst case scenario it is very possible to get a white-peace from the US! That gives me hope! :D I'll get me my New Zealand yet!
No, just plain calculation. If I am not wrong, each time you will declare war on a country, it will increase your threat against USA by 35. 3 times 35 is 105. Enough to be over US neutrality, even if they left it at 100%.
 

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And as someone else has posted, in a worst case scenario it is very possible to get a white-peace from the US! That gives me hope! :D I'll get me my New Zealand yet!

Yeah, but this is the only time so far I have seen that happen. So dont count on it. I dont know if its something in SF, or this cool mod i use. I did not manage to take much territory when it happened either. I guess you might do better vs. the USA, as i did not really have a plan other than invading Guatemala so I just used what other units I had to move against USA. It's horrible when you meet their troops though. They are gonna get eaten up as the USA mobilizes.
 

Revshawn

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No, just plain calculation. If I am not wrong, each time you will declare war on a country, it will increase your threat against USA by 35. 3 times 35 is 105. Enough to be over US neutrality, even if they left it at 100%.

I see. Well, what is to stop you from taking over New Zealand and Cuba, and then downing the two minor countries a month before the game ends with a double DOW? That would be pretty fun!

Honestly though, I say that with an ignorance of how the threat system works. If I can use propoganda to reduce my own threat level, or if it decreased through time, I'll definitely do what is necessary to keep Mexico under the limit to keep the USA from DOWing me. It's a last case scenario, but if the USA is already in a war I imagine that they'll accept peace fairly quickly in order to avoid committing troops to another front, and to regain IW and resources.

Yeah, but this is the only time so far I have seen that happen. So dont count on it. I dont know if its something in SF, or this cool mod i use. I did not manage to take much territory when it happened either. I guess you might do better vs. the USA, as i did not really have a plan other than invading Guatemala so I just used what other units I had to move against USA. It's horrible when you meet their troops though. They are gonna get eaten up as the USA mobilizes.

I won't count on it for sure, but as a last case scenario the best strategy would probably be to landrush and spam peace agreements. See above for reasoning. If it can be done once, I'll do it again. :D

About the US accepting the peace: I've played tons of South American games (I used Noneutrality) and did some warmongering. The US generally seems to accept the first two or so peace agreements almost every time (as long as nobody in the war is in one of the 3 factions)

Stay thirsty my friend.*salutes*
 

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I see. Well, what is to stop you from taking over New Zealand and Cuba, and then downing the two minor countries a month before the game ends with a double DOW? That would be pretty fun!

Honestly though, I say that with an ignorance of how the threat system works. If I can use propoganda to reduce my own threat level, or if it decreased through time, I'll definitely do what is necessary to keep Mexico under the limit to keep the USA from DOWing me. It's a last case scenario, but if the USA is already in a war I imagine that they'll accept peace fairly quickly in order to avoid committing troops to another front, and to regain IW and resources.

- USA will attack you once you do the double DOW. You'll have to fight them at the same time as 2 other countries.
- Afaik, there is not much to reduce your threat. (releasing puppets may reduce it). And you have no control on US neutrality.
- If USA is at war, they'll probably be part of the allies. And there is no peace once in a faction.
- It is an AI. Don't imagine what they would do. :) They will not "think" this way.
 

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Right click link-> Save target as, if you're still having trouble getting the manual up in-browser.
 
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