Getting factory output into balance with recruitment/reinforcement

[HappyOdin]

I am inching close to 200 hours on HOI4, but haven't been able to get factory output into satisfactory balance with recruitment/reinforcement, especially in the late game when playing as a major.

For example, as Germany, I typically under-produce ART, and grossly over-produce INF. The problem compounds with the production efficiency mechanic and the re-tooling penalty. What's needed in '36 is not what is needed in '43.

Is anyone willing to volunteer some tips or rules of thumb that might help? For example, always have five factories producing INF per x number of 20-width infantry divisions in training. Or, always have one factory producing ART per three infantry divisions fighting in the field (with 2 line and one support ART each). I am making these up, but you should get the drift. Or does it depend too heavily on losses and attrition?

This was clearly a historical problem. As Churchill says in The Second World War (regarding munitions): in the first year you get almost none; in the second, a little; in the third, a lot; and in the fourth, a flood.

 

[KalZakath]

Don't think that there really is a hard rule for 'x' factories per division in training, as it also has to replace all the equipment lost to attrition/combat/training/etc. If I'm not fighting any wars, have all of my units in good terrain, and am not training any divisions in the field, my needs have always seemed much lower than if I'm fighting Barbarossa, have units in horrible terrain in Africa, and have 50 divisions on the western front training in the field.

I think I'm also seeing streams where they build the equipment, then don't even start training the divisions until they have plenty of equipment for them.

 

[Tarkilth]

It's one of those thigns that are a bit hard to give a concrete rule of thumb for. It depends too much on how you push with your divisions, what doctrines you have and so on. Also how long the wars last. When you overwhelm an opponent you hardly lose any equipment and indeed seize a portion of the country you occupy's stockpile. When you fight against another major with a good defensive line and vast manpower pool anyone's stockpile can be emptied. All that matters is if your sotckpile runs out before or after your foe's. In any case, if you find yourself playing a certain way and running into the same issues (You overproduce INF and lack ART) then you should try to produce more ART from 36 and less INF. Say you used to split it 15 INF / 5 ART factories, shift one or two over and try out if 13 / 7 balances it better for you.

I will say that having an abundance of INF equipment is usually not a bad thing. There's little that is worse than running out of INF equipment and once you have run out of it it's hard to replace in quantities enough to outweigh the rate at which you lose it. You can of course produce lower quality INF and open new lines, but it takes a lot of time. And considering how many divisions use and need it, your entire army suffers immensly. On the other hand, if you're running out of a lot of artillery, you can always scale down your divisions to use less artillery. Yes, they'll technically be weaker, but only against the theoretical division. If they're not getting the artillery equipment they're not better anyway - rather the opposite. Reducing Infantry battalions in your divisions however is usually a much harder sell, though naturally possible depending on where you began.

 

[PanzerMan7]

You want to produce a 10-1 inf/art. A 14-4 (or a 7-2) has about 10x as much infantry equipment as artillery, but you want a little extra infantry equipment for tanks, garrisions, etc.

Price of infantry 1: 0.5
Price of artillery 1: 3.5

I'd say put the same amount of factories on infantry as artillery. That's my rule of thumb. But things get tricky when dealing with upgrades ofc. I don't upgrade infantry equipment unless I have huge stockpile of infantry equipment 1 that is just wasteful to expand. But artillery is very good to upgrade.

Inf 2: 0.6
Inf 3: 0.7
Art 2: 4.0
Art 3: 4.5

Honestly as a rule of thumb just match infantry and artillery factories 1-1.

EDIT: You'll actually produce about 7x as much infantry equipment as artillery with 1-1 factory split but since you'll capture plenty of infantry equipment from the AI (or get lend lease from minors), the ration should be guicci.

 

[a_sophist]

I am inching close to 200 hours on HOI4, but haven't been able to get factory output into satisfactory balance with recruitment/reinforcement, especially in the late game when playing as a major.

For example, as Germany, I typically under-produce ART, and grossly over-produce INF. The problem compounds with the production efficiency mechanic and the re-tooling penalty. What's needed in '36 is not what is needed in '43.

As has been said this issue is context dependent, but I'll say a bit about how I play Germany since you brought it up. I think the most important consideration is what you consider to be late game. With the way I play, Europe is conquered by Spring 42 (assuming a Fall 39 start), at which point anything else I want to do is trivial given the amount of factories I have. In that case I don't add any factories to infantry equipment or artillery because I'm attacking with tanks and planes, and infantry is there just to hold the line (I will often in fact take the artillery out of the infantry divisions). Considering all of the equipment you get from peacefully annexing Austria and the Czech Republic you can easily field up to 125-150 20 width pure infantry divisions by the invasion of Poland (not that that's necessary), along with as many planes and tanks as you'll need. If you want a more historically accurate war where you don't immediately invade the UK and wait for the US to get involved, I'd still argue that you don't need to add factories to infantry equipment and artillery if you're not attacking with infantry, but the calculus certainly changes.

 

[swm]

Keep in mind, too, that Infantry Equipment is one of the more attrition resistant pieces of equipment, at 90% reliability rather than the standard 80%. If most of your equipment losses are coming from attrition, you will likely end up losing mostly arty. I will, however, echo the 1:1 suggestion from earlier. I think it slightly overbuilds infantry equipment, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Worst case scenario, a division armed exclusively with infantry equipment will fight one heck of a lot better than a division armed exclusively with arty.

 

[Magnificent Genius]

I'm gong to go with "you can never have too much spare equipment". I've been at that place where I was like "too much equipment in my stockpiie" so the next game I put fewer factories on inf equipment and ended up with a huge deficit. Which is much, much worse than overproducing. Worst case with over production, you LL a ton of it(the AI *ALWAYS* has an equipment deficit). Worst case with underproduction, you lose the game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You can and should do the math based on the compositions you want to use. Unlike many other things the information on production cost of each unit and # units required per division is displayed in the game.

You can even do it in your head if you've practice with that, even easier if you're willing to round so that you're "close enough".

Efficiency ramp-up makes the calculation more problematic, if you're planning to add something to the line later, plan on allocating it more initial factories to compensate.

I'm gong to go with "you can never have too much spare equipment". I've been at that place where I was like "too much equipment in my stockpiie" so the next game I put fewer factories on inf equipment and ended up with a huge deficit.

Unless you're already a runaway post-WW2 in SP, overbuilding something is a mistake. It's good to have spares for casualties and attrition. Losing out on the ability to sufficiently outfit armies with artillery, recon, engineers, and having more tanks is not so good.​

 

[Gort11]

For a while now I've wanted the division designer and logistics screen to do some maths for me and tell me the ratio of factories I'll need to build my divisions.

Like I can work out with a calculator and the wiki that with 1936-level equipment, a 7 infantry 2 artillery battalion division has the following costs:

350 production of infantry gear (700 units at 0.5 per unit)
252 production of artillery (72 units at 3.5 per unit)

So it'd be good if the division designer told me "Hey, with this design you'll want seven factories building infantry gear and five building artillery!" so I didn't need to get my calculator out. Bonus points if I can then tell the production screen, "Take a third of my total factories for this kind of division and assign new ones in the correct ratio as I build new factories".

 

[Alex_brunius]

What I do is check my template ratios and compare it to actual production output to determine desired long term balance.

Let's say I for example have an infantry template with 96 artillery and 700 Infantry equipment ( Your standard 7+2 )

My Ratio for this template then becomes 1 Artillery : 7 Infantry Eq.

If I have an output of 200 Infantry Equipment per day I can quickly figure out that I need 200/7 = ~30 Artillery per day output to match it.

If I have a big surplus of Infantry Equipment but shortage of Artillery I might aim a bit higher, like trying for 35-40 Artillery per day.

If your decent with mental arithmetics you can get close enough in most situations without needing a calculator or spreadsheet.

 

[PanzerMan7]

What I do is check my template ratios and compare it to actual production output to determine desired long term balance.

Let's say I for example have an infantry template with 96 artillery and 700 Infantry equipment ( Your standard 7+2 )

My Ratio for this template then becomes 1 Artillery : 7 Infantry Eq.

If I have an output of 200 Infantry Equipment per day I can quickly figure out that I need 200/7 = ~30 Artillery per day output to match it.

If I have a big surplus of Infantry Equipment but shortage of Artillery I might aim a bit higher, like trying for 35-40 Artillery per day.

If your decent with mental arithmetics you can get close enough in most situations without needing a calculator or spreadsheet.

The best part is that the 1-1 ratio basically follows this. 0.5-inf1. 3.5-art1.

 

[Alex_brunius]

The best part is that the 1-1 ratio basically follows this. 0.5-inf1. 3.5-art1.

The main point of my method is that it works with any template.

You got tank templates that need 300 Tanks, 300 Motorized and 100 SPGs?

Well you want to make sure to make 3 times as many Tanks/Mot as you make SPGs.

 

[D3po]

It sounds like you're investing heavily on ART research and switch production at every possible chance. And your approach to using the most appropriate templates might need work. Also, you should note production cost as factory output in terms of raw numbers, in addition to efficiency and resources needed.
They are not the same, and this took quite a long time for me to figure out.

About 600 hours into the game, I've finally also learned myself to get rid of my fixation for the 7 INF 2 ART template. You don't need to have 150 divisions of the same template, nor can you sufficiently arm them for a sustainable period of warfare (not to mention that Tungsten usually becomes a precious commodity, once you go heavy on the tanks). For most majors in SP, air power and tanks is where it's at. 20 width divisions with only support ART is usually fine for filling the lines, with only a smaller ratio of "elite infantry" for helping with breakthroughs, or on bad terrain which negates the armor advantage. And never underestimate the attrition mechanic.

I've also acquainted myself with the division equipment screen, where I can prioritize only my 7-2 elite infantry divisions with latest and greatest gear, and leaving the rest with the old or conquered stockpile. This is especially helpful for minor nations. With this in mind, you could have a staggered approach to upgrades, and keep around a small factory line of old ART before the efficiency catches up on your fresh factory line.