Getting CRUSHED by new Unlawful Imperial Territory Modifier for just following mission tree!

[akrau]

Playing a Brandenburg-Prussia game. Expanding (slowly) within the HRE taking permanent claimed provinces from mission tree. Have had this new crushing modifier for following the mission tree the whole game. Am I supposed to just play the game at negative prestige and no legitimacy? Meanwhile Muscovy has a Hollenzollern with no heir and I can't claim throne because I can't even stay above 0 prestige. -4 yearly prestige and -2 legitimacy is the biggest malus for either in the entire game. If the pope excommunicates you, its -2 prestige, which is punishing but reasonable for the severity, and theres a lot you can do to avoid it even if you are expanding a lot in Northern Italy. It also ends upon rulers death. Are you saying that me taking the tiny province of Madgeburg, which I have a permanent claim on, is twice as bad as getting excommunicated? And the modifier has no expiration date. How am I supposed to even complete the missions from the mission tree? This is unplayable!

 

[Vin55]

That is knew sounds broken.

 

[akrau]

That is knew sounds broken.

They mention it in the 1.32.0 patch notes but don't elaborate.

 

[Vetgirig]

Take vassal - annex vassal. No unlawful territory.

It's the new meta for playing in HRE.

 

[Zelius]

Take vassal - annex vassal. No unlawful territory.

It's the new meta for playing in HRE.

Sounds like the old meta to me. Don't forget that you take an opinion penalty for annexing an HRE member, even if they were your vassal.

 

[Junuxx]

It used to be that if you were allied to the emperor, they wouldn't demand the territory back, so you avoid getting the modifier. Not sure if it still works like that.

 

[subzero12479]

Does it go away after you cored everything? Iirc this modifier previously only applied to the emperor while he has uncored hre provinces.

 

[akrau]

Does it go away after you cored everything? Iirc this modifier previously only applied to the emperor while he has uncored hre provinces.

Nope. I've had that modifier for basically the whole game.

 

[akrau]

Sounds like the old meta to me. Don't forget that you take an opinion penalty for annexing an HRE member, even if they were your vassal.

Yeah and the AE. This is just broken. Plus, why even have the missions for the claims? If they wanted the player to expand with vassals, why give claims? Why not the subjugation CB?

 

[grotaclas]

Nope. I've had that modifier for basically the whole game.

That sounds like a bug. But I can't reproduce it. I just tested this and the modifier went away once I finished coring all provinces. If you have a save in which you have no uncored provinces and still have that modifier, you might want to make a bugreport about this

 

[petertju]

That sounds like a bug. But I can't reproduce it. I just tested this and the modifier went away once I finished coring all provinces. If you have a save in which you have no uncored provinces and still have that modifier, you might want to make a bugreport about this

I don't even think it is related the unlawful territory diplomatic action. Isn't there an event or imperial incident that might be related to this?

 

[grotaclas]

I don't even think it is related the unlawful territory diplomatic action. Isn't there an event or imperial incident that might be related to this?

It is not related to the diplomatic action. Instead it seems to be directly caused by owning uncored HRE province (-0.5 legitimacy and -1 prestige per province). In my test I got the modifier immediately after the conquest even though the emperor had not sent the unlawful territory request.
The modifier is not new either. It has been in the game files since at least version 1.4.1, but it was not displayed as a country modifier in previous versions. In older versions I have seen its effect in the prestige and legitimacy tooltips.

 

[JacobiteJames]

Take vassal - annex vassal. No unlawful territory.

It's the new meta for playing in HRE.

New? Traditional!

It is not related to the diplomatic action. Instead it seems to be directly caused by owning uncored HRE province (-0.5 legitimacy and -1 prestige per province). In my test I got the modifier immediately after the conquest even though the emperor had not sent the unlawful territory request.
The modifier is not new either. It has been in the game files since at least version 1.4.1, but it was not displayed as a country modifier in previous versions. In older versions I have seen its effect in the prestige and legitimacy tooltips.

Interesting, can someone take an image of the prestige tool tip in the last couple major patches to see when this appeared

Yeah and the AE. This is just broken. Plus, why even have the missions for the claims? If they wanted the player to expand with vassals, why give claims? Why not the subjugation CB?

You can grant vassals your claims (if you have the dlc), paradox wants expansion to be slower in hre than anywhere else, considering when brandenburg historically blitzed the empire.

Playing a Brandenburg-Prussia game. Expanding (slowly) within the HRE taking permanent claimed provinces from mission tree. Have had this new crushing modifier for following the mission tree the whole game. Am I supposed to just play the game at negative prestige and no legitimacy? Meanwhile Muscovy has a Hollenzollern with no heir and I can't claim throne because I can't even stay above 0 prestige. -4 yearly prestige and -2 legitimacy is the biggest malus for either in the entire game. If the pope excommunicates you, its -2 prestige, which is punishing but reasonable for the severity, and theres a lot you can do to avoid it even if you are expanding a lot in Northern Italy. It also ends upon rulers death. Are you saying that me taking the tiny province of Madgeburg, which I have a permanent claim on, is twice as bad as getting excommunicated? And the modifier has no expiration date. How am I supposed to even complete the missions from the mission tree? This is unplayable!View attachment 774805

You can use rivalry wars and remove rival peace deal to get higher prestige

 

[RMS Oceanic]

There was always that modifier for unlawful territory while you're coring, but I don't think it was as severe.

 

[grotaclas]

Interesting, can someone take an image of the prestige tool tip in the last couple major patches to see when this appeared

The oldest executable version which I have installed is 1.5 and it already has that modifier with the same size as the current version(1 prestige, 0.5 legitimacy per province):

 

[Me_]

This is an ancient modifier that existed for a very long time. The only change is that it now shows in the government tab. Calling it new is only causing confusion. This is only a UI change.

 

[Twoflower]

It would be a wonderful idea to rework the memey, ahistorical mission tree for Brandenburg
What I mean by that:
1. One of the first missions giving permaclaims on the entire states of Saxony-Anhalt, Lower Saxony and Weser. Anhalt and Bremen were never part of Prussia, the former Kingdom of Hanover only became part of it in 1866, well outside the EU4 timeframe (representing that by a mission at the end of the tree would be fine, but not as one of the first things to do)
2. The Conquer Lower Saxony missions, the second one in that awful branch, giving permaclaims on Brunswick and all of Westphalia. Most of Westphalia became part of Prussia at the Congress of Vienna, Brunswick was never Prussian. Again, a mission that promotes and rewards ahistorical behaviour very early on.
3. The Duchy of Cleves mission requiring those two ahistorical, memey missions when this is something that Brandenburg did quite early on, in 1609, in fact before conquering anything it has to conquer in the two missions that it necessarily has to complete before doing this.
4. The Emden Company mission, which is again something that happened historically, requiring the meme mission "Westphalian Conquest"

How to fix this?
1. Have the first mission in that branch, Show of Strength, give permaclaims just on Magdeburg and Halle and a PU CB on Cleves
2. make the "Duchy of Cleves" mission the second mission in that subbranch. Have the Westphalian Conquest mission as the third and Conquer Lower Saxony as the fourth mission in the subbranch - followed by the Rhineland Conquest and German Confederation missions
3. Add a new mission (probably in its separate branch) about the secularization/conquest of Magdeburg
4. Add a "Convention of Emden" mission, representing the acquisition of Ostfriesland. The Emden company would be a followup to that one.

Sorry for the rant, but this is what I always think when people point out that the mission tree encourages Brandenburg to go on a conquest spree. Yes, it does, but it really should not

You can grant vassals your claims (if you have the dlc), paradox wants expansion to be slower in hre than anywhere else, considering when brandenburg historically blitzed the empire.

When, exactly, did Brandenburg "blitz" the Empire? Not in the EU4 timeframe.

 

[Strangedane]

Not a new modifier, that has almost always been there.
If it does not disappear once you have cored, it's probably a mod situation.

I've never had this debuff stay after coring in vanilla mode.

 

[JacobiteJames]

[BGCOLOR=rgb(30, 40, 62)][/BGCOLOR]

When, exactly, did Brandenburg "blitz" the Empire? Not in the EU4 timeframe.

Agreed on your previous points on brandenburg has its mission tree very back to front. Thing i dont get is why it just has claims and not a restoration of union to cleves and claims in the mission tree, considering how many got free pus in emperor. Austria getting Italy so late in the mission tree really shows that late prussia things could be done

Prussia blitzing the empire is the last 50 years of the game gaining so much land I'd say, from war of austrian succession to congress of vienna. 30 years war gave minor gains in pomerania and rhineland but largest territorial growth comes in that period

 

[leefnmajors]

The oldest executable version which I have installed is 1.5 and it already has that modifier with the same size as the current version(1 prestige, 0.5 legitimacy per province):
View attachment 774838View attachment 774839

Oh, just look at those hideous, GLORIOUSLY oversized provinces and borders!