• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(30110)

Corporal
Jun 5, 2004
39
0
If I get in a war and refused help from my allies, and find that later on I can't win, can I ask for allies help again?

If I am at war with a nation and I invite another nation to join my alliance, can I get my new ally to help in the war?
 

Morlac

Major
61 Badges
Apr 20, 2002
571
0
Visit site
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
And even if your new allies decide to attack your enemy on their own, they will be in a "separate" war. It will be listed separately on the alliances screen, and you will have separate war scores for the purposes of determining who is "winning" each war. You would, however, be able to both lay siege to an enemy province at the same time (though only one -- the one with highest ranked commander-- will gain control of the province if successful)

It's really a separate question, but in general, allies are usually more trouble than they are worth for most wars. They tend to bring way too many troops to a siege, and may "steal" the siege from you by having a higher ranked commander. Save the allies for the wars against overwhelming enemies where it's life or death, or for wars where they can open a "second front" that may keep the enemy busy and where they won't interfere in your own operations.

If you are in over your head in the current war, stop and evaluate the situation with a ruthless streak. First offer a peace just to see what your relative war scores are -- do you have any stars at all? (Obviously cancel the offer rather than sending it!) Second, rather than concentrate on what you'd hoped to get out of the war, evaluate what you can still salvage. Does he have any provinces that you can take very easily and quickly (e.g. an unfortified city or a minimal fort that you can siege heavily or assault) -- that might be enough to give you a star or two in war score. Can you buy your way out of the war with a relatively small amount of cash? Can you buy your way out of the war by giving up a province that does him little good (e.g. no connection to his own territories, maybe even one of your core provinces that will give you a permanent CB against him for the next round of wars) ALso, while you are doing all of that, assuming that he has superiority of army numbers or quality, avoid open combat -- let him siege your provinces and hopefully attrit while you do whatever you need to do.

One of the biggest mistakes one can make is to hang on in a long-running slugging match of a war that drains your resources for very little potential reward. In big world conquest games, I used to "roleplay" a certain amount of vindictiveness against the little one-province nuisance countries who would DOW me. If I didn't plan to annex them yet, I'd still often take their capital just to avoid paying them the 250d they asked for peace. Then I started to calculate how much it was costing me in attritted armies and extra military maintenace (during wartime your maintenance costs are increased). :mad:
 

Nikolai II

A bunny with a hat
130 Badges
Nov 18, 2001
9.389
415
www.giantitp.com
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • War of the Roses
  • Lead and Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
Fistleaf said:
If I am at war with a nation and I invite another nation to join my alliance, can I get my new ally to help in the war?

IIRC joining an alliance will put you in all the alliance-leaders wars. Which means that if you reinvite your allies they will join your war. (If you didn't call for allies in the first place you would have to ban them from your alliance first, which is difficult enough and then it is expensive to bring them back - but it should work)
 

Stonewall

NRA Lifetime Member
75 Badges
May 4, 2001
4.416
479
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
Fistleaf said:
A separate question: If I join my allies in a war and lost a few provinces, when my alliance leader sues for peace, can my lost provinces be offered to the enemy without my consent?

Yes.
 

Morlac

Major
61 Badges
Apr 20, 2002
571
0
Visit site
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
Fistleaf said:
A separate question: If I join my allies in a war and lost a few provinces, when my alliance leader sues for peace, can my lost provinces be offered to the enemy without my consent?

Note that some players (myself included) abuse that fact all the time to get 3 provinces of your choice in settlements. When a weak nation attacks you along with bigger allies, capture all of his provinces as usual, which gives you the total-victory of seven stars. But instead of taking their provinces in the peace or annexing (or doing separate peaces that may turn your defensive war into an offensive one) strip his allies of 3 of their best provinces. The tiny nation will still hate you but also still (for whatever reason) think that he can take you next time... ;) Or you can be ruthless in your offensive wars -- instead of DOWing directly against your real target, DOW their tiniest ally (if you think they'll honor the alliance...)
 

unmerged(11600)

bring the game home!
Nov 8, 2002
5.788
1
Visit site
Morlac said:
Note that some players (myself included) abuse that fact all the time to get 3 provinces of your choice in settlements. When a weak nation attacks you along with bigger allies, capture all of his provinces as usual, which gives you the total-victory of seven stars. But instead of taking their provinces in the peace or annexing (or doing separate peaces that may turn your defensive war into an offensive one) strip his allies of 3 of their best provinces. The tiny nation will still hate you but also still (for whatever reason) think that he can take you next time... ;) Or you can be ruthless in your offensive wars -- instead of DOWing directly against your real target, DOW their tiniest ally (if you think they'll honor the alliance...)

This will even work with only 6 stars. The Papacy declared war on my France, and I took 3 provinces as well as the capital from them. I also took a few Portugese (their allies in this war) TPs and a colonial city. I then demanded two Portugese TPs and a Portugese city of the Pope, and he figured "eh, there not our provinces, and accepted. It's the only time I've ever demanded and got three provinces without total conquest.

-Pat
 

Morlac

Major
61 Badges
Apr 20, 2002
571
0
Visit site
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
pjcrowe said:
This will even work with only 6 stars. The Papacy declared war on my France, and I took 3 provinces as well as the capital from them. I also took a few Portugese (their allies in this war) TPs and a colonial city. I then demanded two Portugese TPs and a Portugese city of the Pope, and he figured "eh, there not our provinces, and accepted. It's the only time I've ever demanded and got three provinces without total conquest.

-Pat

Pat --

What you describe sounds like a 7 star victory rather than a 6 star one. The Papal States were alliance leaders for the purposes of the war, right? You captured all their provinces? (3 + capital is their "normal" size...) If they had big allies still in the war you might not have gotten the Annexation screen in your peace negotiation, which could have led you to think that you only had 6 stars.

I won't say that the AI will never agree to a player-proposed even agreement (using up exactly the number of stars you've earned), just that I've never seen it. The AI will, of course, often reject that agreement and then turn around a month later proposing the same exact thing or something just as equal. Like many managers I've known, the AI only seems to like those deals when they are its idea :D
 

unmerged(11600)

bring the game home!
Nov 8, 2002
5.788
1
Visit site
Morlac said:
Pat --

What you describe sounds like a 7 star victory rather than a 6 star one. The Papal States were alliance leaders for the purposes of the war, right? You captured all their provinces? (3 + capital is their "normal" size...) If they had big allies still in the war you might not have gotten the Annexation screen in your peace negotiation, which could have led you to think that you only had 6 stars.

Nope - 6 stars only. The Pope had somehow or other inherited Tuscany at some point in the game, and that mountain province was left in their control at the time. I really didn't expect it to work, but...

-Pat
ps- and "normal" size for the Papacy is 2+capital.
 

Xanthippus

Byzantine Khaghan
89 Badges
Apr 27, 2004
736
17
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
I can confirm that 6 star victories will work for 3 province claims. I've actually done it quite a few times. Seems the conditions have to be just right. I was playing as Ethopia and I had conquered from the West African to the Horn of Africa, Greece, the Middle East and Georgia, and most of Persia. Against the Uzbeks they ceded three provinces with only 6 stars twice, and when I got on to the Mughals, they did it once. And that's with me making the proposal, not them. I suppose you have to be enormously bigger than them and they have to be fairly weak.