No more hiding OP. How are you altering monarch point income, idea groups, and unity/revolt risk to account for the change?
Get rid of Missionaries
- Thread starter Mad King James
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No more hiding OP. How are you altering monarch point income, idea groups, and unity/revolt risk to account for the change?
You can change many things without using monarch points. This has already been mentioned several times in the thread, and continuing to insist otherwise makes it apparent that you skim or simply don't read any of the posts disagreeing with you idea.
Even if one were to assume that changing it to cost MPs was a beneficial step, the way you propose to implement it is inane. Coring territory removes all penalties associated with un-cored territory for generally 2-20 AMP per BT. Culture convert removes all penalties associated with unaccepted cultures for 15-25 DMP per BT.
Your "grand idea" leaves almost all religious penalties in place, while costing roughly 2-4 times as much MP as the other two actions.
I've never seen those disappear within the first 10 years of gameplay even in AI hands, the missionary count and conversion strength just aren't there for the powers that normally would conquer them.
Despite being ham-fisted and asinine, it actually wouldn't stop this at all. By removing missionaries, you remove the limitation on the number of provinces that can be converted at a single time. By setting the conversion length to culture-conversion speed (with extra modifiers), you make it faster than early/mid game current conversion.
There are much better ways to fix the issue:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?769470-VEF-Introduction-to-Veritas-et-Fortitudo
There are many reasons for Spain falling behind technologically. Mostly due to the colonies, hyperinflation and corruption in the government. Not so much the Inquistion. And no country, until very near the end of the game, pursed religious freedom. At best there was toleration. Also, the Jesuits would like a word about religiosity and education/tech.
But the really important thing is this, with your idea, humanism isn't pulling ahead in tech, it is the difference between having a functional country and not. A country with humanism will be able to pull so far ahead, and won't be wracked by constant rebels, that it will ROFLSTOMP countries without it. And since most countries aren't coded to have humanism as an idea group, this only gives a human player another unneeded advantage.
Also, taking away one of the only things dependent on cash is a terrible idea.
I'm not hiding, I am not advocating reforming anything, you can suffer and like it
It is indeed a grand idea
Religion is very important in this era, much more important that cores or culture. It defined most wars in this era other than dynastic conflicts and the odd war over trade routes or colonies, so yes it should cost more to change a province's religion than it costs to core it or change the culture (especially since culture conversion requires same-religion).
Letting people convert multiple provinces at once if they have the power points is no problem, it's a bit stupid to limit that anyways.
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This is categorically incorrect, even if you limit your scope to Europe. It's neither here nor there, since it's irrelevant to religious conversion, so I'll let it drop if you can refrain from grossly inaccurate statements
.Don't contradict yourself now. As you said in your OP:
and also argued later,
A system that allows unlimited and finite-duration (currently you can have unconvertible provinces) conversions does nothing to prevent the rapid formation of religiously-homogeneous countries; in fact, it encourages it.
This is categorically incorrect, even if you limit your scope to Europe. It's neither here nor there, since it's irrelevant to religious conversion, so I'll let it drop if you can refrain from grossly inaccurate statements
Don't contradict yourself now. As you said in your OP:
and also argued later,
A system that allows unlimited and finite-duration (currently you can have unconvertible provinces) conversions does nothing to prevent the rapid formation of religiously-homogeneous countries; in fact, it encourages it.
There's nothing contradictory about that at all, theoretically you can increase 10 tech levels at once too, but you don't because noone has that many power points.
What you are doing
is hiding.
You lose, cupcake, and if you insist on me liking that fact then fine
.
What you are doing
is hiding.
You lose, cupcake, and if you insist on me liking that fact then fine
People freaking out = success.
Monarch points are fairly awful as it is, why on earth would you want to expand their influence even more?
People actually like the riveting gameplay of sending missionaries without thought?
I like the proposal, it would need to be balanced.
But seriously a lot of the arguments are pretty much "I don´t want to spend points!"
The proposal at least involves some choice in converting religion Vs leavign them as it is. God forbid you have to actually manage your resources.
I always found it weird how Missionary Work is practically free(Well, money but its the most common resource in the game). I like them costing Mil points, gives something for that to be used. I always liked how Culture Conversion had a cost that prevented all of Europe being 4 cultures at the end of the game.
Oh yeah and Humanism would have to be reworked because with this change it would become a must have.
Oh and I do think it should involve some waiting. Maybe make it drain MP like when integrating a Vassal?
I don´t really see whats the big deal with Religious conversion using up resources. Whats exactly wrong with this? Other than "I´m cheap and don´t want to spend MP"
Now if the argument is that it cripples non western nations then its that what needs to be looked at. But thats just changing numbers
I like the proposal, it would need to be balanced.
But seriously a lot of the arguments are pretty much "I don´t want to spend points!"
The proposal at least involves some choice in converting religion Vs leavign them as it is. God forbid you have to actually manage your resources.
I always found it weird how Missionary Work is practically free(Well, money but its the most common resource in the game). I like them costing Mil points, gives something for that to be used. I always liked how Culture Conversion had a cost that prevented all of Europe being 4 cultures at the end of the game.
Oh yeah and Humanism would have to be reworked because with this change it would become a must have.
Oh and I do think it should involve some waiting. Maybe make it drain MP like when integrating a Vassal?
I don´t really see whats the big deal with Religious conversion using up resources. Whats exactly wrong with this? Other than "I´m cheap and don´t want to spend MP"
Now if the argument is that it cripples non western nations then its that what needs to be looked at. But thats just changing numbers
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Not true, I have played humanism campaigns with +3 (current level, not bonus) tolerance. I don't care what converts to what then.
Posts like these are a point in favor of "people read last page of posts, not the full thread". It has been mentioned over and over again that religious conversion does currently cost points.
Most countries have 1 Missionary. Unless you're sitting purely in the parts of Europe that start catholic (so no conversion malus from Orthodox/Muslim), 1 missionary isn't really going to keep up with rate of conquest.
More missionaries can be acquired by taking religious ideas (ADM points), DotF if Christian/Muslim or Counter-reformation if Catholic (+tech costs = all MPs), or conquering various religious centers (ADM/DIP points)
Missionary Strength can be acquired by decisions or by taking religious ideas (ADM points).
Catholic/Protestant/Reformed are handheld with +missionary strength decisions that have no cost direct or opportunity. If anything, remove or re-balance those, for everyone else there is already a cost to effectively convert territory.
How on earth are you conquering so much territory that your missionaries converting everything in less than a year each isn't enough?
I tripled my territory in my last game in only the last decade and control most of northern Europe, and I converted everything in a couple decades with 1 missionary and no religious ideas.
It's possible to get 8 missionaries (!) in EU4 right now. Eight!
I tripled my territory in my last game in only the last decade and control most of northern Europe, and I converted everything in a couple decades with 1 missionary and no religious ideas.
It's possible to get 8 missionaries (!) in EU4 right now. Eight!
How on earth are you conquering so much territory that your missionaries converting everything in less than a year each isn't enough?
I tripled my territory in my last game in only the last decade and control most of northern Europe, and I converted everything in a couple decades with 1 missionary and no religious ideas.
It's possible to get 8 missionaries (!) in EU4 right now. Eight!
It's not hard to conquer faster than missionary progress, as cores occur in batches and conversions don't. The hardest way is fighting your way through Islamic land as a non-Muslim. That 2% really hurts.
How on earth are you conquering so much territory that your missionaries converting everything in less than a year each isn't enough?
I tripled my territory in my last game in only the last decade and control most of northern Europe, and I converted everything in a couple decades with 1 missionary and no religious ideas.
It's possible to get 8 missionaries (!) in EU4 right now. Eight!
Religion could have a reworkd, but spend MP is the worst idea that PDS could implement in the game. What they could do is give each province a percentage of religions.
1 - If the country religion is the dominant in one province we wouldn't get any penalties.
2 - If a heretic religion have the greatest percentage it would have a penalty.
3 - If a heathen religion have the greatest percentage it could cause a religious turmoil there.
4 - You could use missionaries to improve the percentage of your religion in certain province.
5 - A province could influence its neighbours in some way.
6 - If a province is neighbouring of another religion with higher basetax there would be a decay in the percentage.
Something like that I would like to see.
How on earth are you conquering so much territory that your missionaries converting everything in less than a year each isn't enough?
I tripled my territory in my last game in only the last decade and control most of northern Europe, and I converted everything in a couple decades with 1 missionary and no religious ideas.
It's possible to get 8 missionaries (!) in EU4 right now. Eight!
Because not everyone plays in Northern Europe which gets freebies as Christians and you're likely dealing with no culture penalties. And also, taking an extreme and automatically applying it out of context as if it was the norm is not going to persuade anybody. Like omg, I can do wc, should totally remove declare war button so op.
You have a really bad habit of making arguments without any points to explain or support them- please read over them before posting next time.
Actually I play nations all over the world, and indeed freebies galore playing as the Hansa rather than say, Majapahit (my last game). I built Majapahit into a world power and converted every last Muslim province in southeast Asia to Hindu, I had the biggest navy in the world etc etc. You know the year I converted the last Muslim province in all of southeast Asia was? 1550. No religious ideas, just one missionary. 1550.