Get more Operatives: year plus later.

[Gigaus]

So La Resistance has been out long enough to get some decent testing and gameplay out of it, and for opinions to formulate. How the ops work, what the limits are, and how it factors into the game overall.

Now, I'll put my personal thoughts on it, then open up to you guys for yours, but overall this is more a 'feel' rather than a 'numbers' thread.

Honestly, aside from changes to countries, the best way I see it is as overpowered pointlessness. How? On the one hand, due to 'steal blueprints', having 3 agents means you effectively have an extra research slot, that could possibly produce a tech or a major tech bonus, especially in the industrial and aircraft branches. Or being able to effectively take over a country without any real negatives through compliance. Plus being able to 'force' AI into your faction if there's no limits in the way. That said, how you get agents and how long ops can take, as well as what little effect most have makes the above the only really 'useful' ones. Coordinated Strike is only really effective in '40 and onward, and only if you have a major Air presence, by which point you're likely already at war and able to roll over the enemy. And what use is there to the whole getting resistance contacts, outside of occupied France?

But the big hampering point is how long ops can take once you start doing them, and how you get agents, as well as little to no interplay between agencies. By default, there's no increase to op timers, but as more and more defense is put on a country, it can take upward of a year to do one operation. There's no way to decrease that on either side. No possibility of agencies combating eachother or sabotaging efforts, no possibility of infiltration like we had with the whole of the German network and Garbo, nothing of the sort; Just occasional spies getting caught and giving a small bonus. And there's no way to increase effectiveness of operations, how long they last, or so on, beyond 'you have x% chance of getting a better result!' So in the end you end up with increasing operation times until eventually the whole agency mechanic is rendered inoperable and moot.

Then there's the one sidedness of getting more spies. 3 to start out with basically means you can do 1 thing every year. One. If you happen to be spymaster, AND you happen to be in a faction, you get more, but only if you're in a biiiiig faction. So nothing like what we see with modern intelligence agencies, where small countries with maybe a strip of land to their name somehow have 3x the manpower of 'major' countries. If you're in the Allies and the spy master, there's no issue getting more spies, they just fall out of the sky by the time the war kicks off. France can get 6 easily going down the Little Ent path. But Germany, USSR, no matter how much land you claim, you get 3 spies and that's it.

And that really is it. After trying for the bulk of the year to test different ways that any of the land grabbing nations could get more spies, outside of foci, it's next to impossible to get 6 spies. The best way it's been put so far is 'if you're Allies, you just exist and the whole DLC is for you. If you're anything but, you have to spend 6 years just getting 2 operatives and getting any use out of the DLC.' And that really seems to be the truth. I've had to take to grabbing countries, puppeting them, maxing their factories, and then flipping them back to being independent by annexing and releasing them. Germany is best for this thanks to improved national spirit, and two workhorses. But at the end of the day, you can't get 6 without basically taking over all of west Europe, at which point, what's the point of having it?

But, that's my thoughts on it, I'd like to hear other people's insight, mainly because I probably missed specific and broken things. Thoughts?

 

[Synicus]

I Think it's a huge improvement from nothing. Tech stealing is a big help for a Nation with a navy. Folks complained before hand that it was getting too hard to keep up with the tech. You can steal industry from Nations that haven't the civ's to start an agency (broken). Get all the planes ya need before 1940.
Collaborating can be pain, no idea how to get the bonus 15%. Civil wars and leadership changes turn into waisted time and resources. I also think it's imposable to collaborate the Soviets, but the time and resources are used anyway.
Not only getting Operatives is a bit difficult, getting good ones is another story, often starting off with full list of thugs to choose from.

Over all it can use a lot of improvement and tweaking. I don't have any suggestions but I think it's a great start.

 

[GrandVezir]

But Germany, USSR, no matter how much land you claim, you get 3 spies and that's it.

Germany gets bonus agents from adding Italy, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria to the Axis. If you really want more agents, avoid conquering or puppeting those countries.

USSR has national focuses that add agents. (Two? it's been a while.)

USA can make its own faction of the democracies in the Americas, and get about 5-6 agents total.

Minors are kind of weak (except Bulgaria which has a national focus for another agent to go with their OP Balkan alliance focus), but that's by design.

 

[Gigaus]

I Think it's a huge improvement from nothing. Tech stealing is a big help for a Nation with a navy. Folks complained before hand that it was getting too hard to keep up with the tech. You can steal industry from Nations that haven't the civ's to start an agency (broken). Get all the planes ya need before 1940.
Collaborating can be pain, no idea how to get the bonus 15%. Civil wars and leadership changes turn into waisted time and resources. I also think it's imposable to collaborate the Soviets, but the time and resources are used anyway.
Not only getting Operatives is a bit difficult, getting good ones is another story, often starting off with full list of thugs to choose from.

Over all it can use a lot of improvement and tweaking. I don't have any suggestions but I think it's a great start.

Don't get me wrong, it's better than nothing, you're right. The standing issue is that for $20 bucks it feels like...Not a lot. That and the fact it's a 'mandatory' DLC, else the base game breaks in two in a lot of places, it feels more like a big patch that has to be paid for rather than content. At the start, when you start tapping a country, you can get two tech a year. Then one. Then one every two years. Once the 40s hit, it lacks entirely.

On the flip side, the new compliance system feels like a punishment entirely. I think the best way that I've heard it summed up is, 'it's geared towards preventing people from holding everything as one world empire, but actively punishes you for not having spies you can never have.' If you start out at 0 compliance, it takes anywhere from 3 to 7 years before you actively start getting resources from held lands, with no way of increasing the speed at all, all the while consistently losing manpower to a degree that outpaces deaths via war. Unless you setup collab governments with spies before hand. And it takes two spies and a full year's time to do one round of that, at minimum.

It feels like, in that regard, the whole spies and agency system was an afterthought, and the whole DLC was designed to introduce a new gating mechanic, and a gimmick for one country.

And, you're right, getting good ones is impossible. I've yet to see one level up or gain experience, no matter how many missions they run.

Germany gets bonus agents from adding Italy, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria to the Axis. If you really want more agents, avoid conquering or puppeting those countries.

USSR has national focuses that add agents. (Two? it's been a while.)

USA can make its own faction of the democracies in the Americas, and get about 5-6 agents total.

Minors are kind of weak (except Bulgaria which has a national focus for another agent to go with their OP Balkan alliance focus), but that's by design.

USSR gets two through focuses, and I think they're the only ones. Free France might from a decision, but I only played them once and got absolutely bored so I stopped.

USA can, yes, but as far as I'm concerned they're an Allies country. Even if they're makin their own Allies 2 EB, they still get a major advantage for spies.

And Germany only gets 2....Italy gives them 1 [Germany + Itally at 1/2 each], and Hgr, Rom, and Bulg give them 0 [3 * 1/4 = 3/4]. You need Spain to give them a 2nd one. Or some other <40 country to join, which diplomatic pressure works wonders.

And that's where it pretty much comes to a head. Everyone else, everyone who is not France, UK, or US, needs to either run over a bunch of countries and puppet them to force alignment shift and then flip them into a faction, hope they can grab 4+ countries into a faction via focuses, or have actual focuses flat give you more slots. Otherwise, you're SOL as far as getting passed 3 spies.

Else, you need mods, and that's where it ends for ironman and multiplayer outside of friends.

---

I really, REALLY hope they readdress this in the future, or 'fix' it when they do the USSR/Germany rework. 3 Spies just doesn't cut it.

 

[Synicus]

Current game it's 1944 and my spies have locked into reducing resistance since 1942.
I think the compliance goal should be to core the province rather than release, like the Kurd's.
And not for a stunning 200 PP.

 

[aletoledo]

While I think there are some much needed improvements, I like what it adds to the game.

Stealing industrial blueprints needs to be fixed, but stealing other techs seems to be functioning as expected. At least for me, the concept seems to work best for stealing something that is being rushed (e.g. '41 tanks). I've tried using it as an extra research slot as you've suggested, but since it takes 120 days, that's basically a break even for me researching it myself. However if someone else is rushing a tech, then me spending 120 days to grab a tech that took them 400 days to research seems appropriate. So I think the issue is that initially it seems like you're going to stealing your way to having everything, but in reality it's more about targeting one specific tech that someone else is devoting a lot of energy into trying to outpace you on.

As for the number of agents, I'm OK with it the way it is. As long as there is a way for everyone to get 3 agents, I don't think getting a 4th is required. Again as long as people don't want to blueprint steal constantly, then I'm not seeing a big need for needing to go above three agents. The weakest thing about the agents themselves is that traits take so long to acquire. Maybe they could make it so that agents could grind useful traits, making the limited number of agent more potent. So while you might only have 2-3 agents, they might have super-traits and be able to have more of an impact that 3-4 agents that are low level. this way a minor nation could compete with quality over quantity.

I think the most interesting espionage aspect is the resistance/compliance operations. It's clear that the germans have an incentive to go for collaboration, while the allies should be doing resistance operations. A few things i would like to see improved are:

1. more ways to run counter-espionage operations. If I know that germany is putting together a collobration government, I'd like some way to stop them. Sure there is the anti-spy mission, but I can only use that with allies and it's just RNG.
2. I'd like to be able to do multiple 'strengthen resistance' operations at once. If i have the agents (as england), I don't see why I can't be fielding two operations at the same time. If occupation laws can be instantly changed to nullify this work across an entire region, then it's difficult to have to run a single operation per state every few months.
3. The sabotage missions need more purpose. It seems to me that they only work on occupied states and they are basically just shifting the focus of the partisans. I'd like to run operations that don't rely on the RNG of the partisans.

 

[Louella]

it's not particularly stellar even when playing as spymaster UK.

I've yet to see the outcome of Operation Gunnerside. This is a special unique operation to attack the heavy water factory in Norway.

In my most recent game, Germany only got round to invading Norway in 1941, so it was already quite late before it was even possible to start planning the operation. Now, in order to carry out the operation, you need to have an intel network of strength 50+ in Oslo, and the Norwegian resistance strength there has to be above 50 as well. It took me more than 2 years to build up the resistance strength, as each build resistance operation took 6 months due to German counter-intelligence strength, and would only boost the resistance strength by 10% (some of which would decline before the next operation occurred - it was more like 18-26-34-42-50, rahter than 20-30-40-50. (resistance strength started at 10)).
Then I finally get the opportunity to start Operation Gunnerside, and find that it would take 180 days due to the strength of German counter measures. Okay, fine, whatever.
By this time, AI America and the rest of the allies have already started invading bits of Europe, and Germany is still fighting the Soviet Union.

End result being, that the war ends before the Operation Gunnerside completes. So I never got to see what the outcome looks like.

 

[Mr.Bajskorv]

It's a big improvment from before but it can improve.

If i would change anything then i would make it easier to for a minor to get more operatives. Maybe both slow the process of building a network but also slow the degereration of a network. So that when you have no spare operative to maintain a network, then you don't start at zero when having done an operation.

I also sort of miss any interaction with domestic issues and puppets.

I would also add dedicated advisor slot for Chief of Intelligence that would add some option to tailor your intelligence.

 

[Mr_Dimento]

I like La Resistance, I like the fourth dimension of warfare it adds into the game, and I enjoy the spygames. I wish there were more upgrades and more operations though.

 

[Gigaus]

Current game it's 1944 and my spies have locked into reducing resistance since 1942.
I think the compliance goal should be to core the province rather than release, like the Kurd's.
And not for a stunning 200 PP.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no way to core provinces/states besides A-Spain, correct?

While I think there are some much needed improvements, I like what it adds to the game.

Stealing industrial blueprints needs to be fixed, but stealing other techs seems to be functioning as expected. At least for me, the concept seems to work best for stealing something that is being rushed (e.g. '41 tanks). I've tried using it as an extra research slot as you've suggested, but since it takes 120 days, that's basically a break even for me researching it myself. However if someone else is rushing a tech, then me spending 120 days to grab a tech that took them 400 days to research seems appropriate. So I think the issue is that initially it seems like you're going to stealing your way to having everything, but in reality it's more about targeting one specific tech that someone else is devoting a lot of energy into trying to outpace you on.

Actually, there's a trick to it. Say you're racing down the Industry, Airplane, or Ship tree? The natural logic is 'go for the majors, get what they might have.' Wrong, go for the little guys first, and in the following years go for the big guys. Why? If you have all the techs they have-- all the t1s and t2 planes, ships, all the t2 industry and electronics-- it doesn't give you a tech it gives you a bonus. I've yet to figure how the system works, but the list seems to be : +50%, +100%, +200%, +300%, -1.0 year ahead, -2.0 year ahead. First time I played as facist [AFK ] France, I managed to get a -2.0 year ahead bonus on nuclear and computer techs in '49, whole reason I even bothered with expanding my spies then on. Figured out that it's the result you get when you don't have any techs to steal, so something like 'steal from army', which has 4 and 1/2 trees to steal from you'll rarely get anything from....Unless, you steal from a minor, who only has 2 research slots.

'yet to get a -1.0 or -2.0 year ahead bonus, but get 50% and 100% consistently. 'get 200% from USSR and US regularly after '49 as well. Also, make sure you have a 100% bonus from safecracker x2 and BP stealing upgrade, without it you'll almost always get 50%, and with it you have a chance at the better stuff.

As for the number of agents, I'm OK with it the way it is. As long as there is a way for everyone to get 3 agents, I don't think getting a 4th is required. Again as long as people don't want to blueprint steal constantly, then I'm not seeing a big need for needing to go above three agents. The weakest thing about the agents themselves is that traits take so long to acquire. Maybe they could make it so that agents could grind useful traits, making the limited number of agent more potent. So while you might only have 2-3 agents, they might have super-traits and be able to have more of an impact that 3-4 agents that are low level. this way a minor nation could compete with quality over quantity.

That's the issue though. If you're not stealing, there's almost nothing for you to do with your Spies. And they're limited to a bunch of traits that....don't really have an effect. The most I've seen is boosts to Coordinated Strike taking a mission from 5 or 7 building/AA destroyed to 'we wiped 3 states boss'. As it is, the way the system is setup, it's about quantity of agents, not quality, expressly due to the fact there's only one decent mission AND that they all take forever to work out. Imagine if you had 10 like in the mods, and you could be doing collab government while stealing bps and lower war support with propaganda? Suddenly the war in USSR is shortened by a year just from the fact you don't need to grab so much.

I think the most interesting espionage aspect is the resistance/compliance operations. It's clear that the germans have an incentive to go for collaboration, while the allies should be doing resistance operations. A few things i would like to see improved are:

1. more ways to run counter-espionage operations. If I know that germany is putting together a collobration government, I'd like some way to stop them. Sure there is the anti-spy mission, but I can only use that with allies and it's just RNG.
2. I'd like to be able to do multiple 'strengthen resistance' operations at once. If i have the agents (as england), I don't see why I can't be fielding two operations at the same time. If occupation laws can be instantly changed to nullify this work across an entire region, then it's difficult to have to run a single operation per state every few months.
3. The sabotage missions need more purpose. It seems to me that they only work on occupied states and they are basically just shifting the focus of the partisans. I'd like to run operations that don't rely on the RNG of the partisans.

All good ideas, need more like these.

1. This and there needs to be a possibility of agents being captured DURING the mission and ending it. As it stands, once a mission goes, it's impossible to stop it, and all the 'good' ones have 0% chance of failing.

2. Or multiple of any mission in one country. Right now, the 'optimal' way to do BP stealing is getting 8 spies, having two sit in countries with quieted, 50% networks, and 2 teams of three actually stealing them. Same applies to any other operation, but fact is there's no reason to run multiple other than Resistance or Collab against several enemy factions.

3. Aye, along with the option to build a resistance in core states. Germany had it's own resistance to the Nazi party, besides defectors and exiles; Why couldn't it be possible to give them a few boxes of demo charges and get them to sneak into a panzer factory to cripple the production, and prevent a war from starting? That, and there needs to be interplay between collab governments and resistance, given the whole notion is that said resistance will likely be in the new government.

It's a big improvment from before but it can improve.

If i would change anything then i would make it easier to for a minor to get more operatives. Maybe both slow the process of building a network but also slow the degereration of a network. So that when you have no spare operative to maintain a network, then you don't start at zero when having done an operation.

I also sort of miss any interaction with domestic issues and puppets.

I would also add dedicated advisor slot for Chief of Intelligence that would add some option to tailor your intelligence.

Agreed on both, the fact is that if you're not a major that can afford a production hit, you don't touch spies until late game, when it won't be useful. And even for majors, the whole intel network collapsing if you don't give up a spy to maintain it is a problem.

That said, what would you want back with the issues and puppets? 'mean, there's no reason that can't be wrapped into the whole agency thing; there is such a thing as domestic intelligence beyond 'THAT SPY IS NOT OUR SPY'

 

[Synicus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no way to core provinces/states besides A-Spain, correct?

Turkey can Core lots now. The decisions are difficult too easy.
Ottoman path has their own set of coring decisions but can't do the late game Turkey ones.

As Ottoman, I just cored Albania, Bulgaria and Greece, had already cored Iraq and Syria.
(now I regret MA for manpower)

Problem with going for the majors last is their agency defense gets stronger.
It sorta depends on what ya want or need.
Not in any specific order but I usually collaborate 1-2 countries, steal 1-2 planes from majors then as many industry bonuses I can get from minors.

 

[Mr.Bajskorv]

That said, what would you want back with the issues and puppets? 'mean, there's no reason that can't be wrapped into the whole agency thing; there is such a thing as domestic intelligence beyond 'THAT SPY IS NOT OUR SPY'

May you should be able to infiltrate the opposition parties or your puppets to decrese the autonomy, this would though need to have the Generic Focus tree to each branch having an option to go independent that unlocks if you are a puppet. As a player you probably never going to be a puppet nation with a generic tree going for independence but as a player with puppets, it could be intresting having puppets that might sometime go for indepenence or having enemies that's having unruly puppets.

Also i would add an option to activly build up the resistance in your cores or states with high compliance, In advance for an eventual occupation. Costing equipment and factories.

But much needed is Quality of Life improvent to be able to filter your operations by nation.

 

[aletoledo]

Actually, there's a trick to it. Say you're racing down the Industry, Airplane, or Ship tree? The natural logic is 'go for the majors, get what they might have.' Wrong, go for the little guys first, and in the following years go for the big guys. Why? If you have all the techs they have-- all the t1s and t2 planes, ships, all the t2 industry and electronics-- it doesn't give you a tech it gives you a bonus. I've yet to figure how the system works, but the list seems to be : +50%, +100%, +200%, +300%, -1.0 year ahead, -2.0 year ahead. First time I played as facist [AFK ] France, I managed to get a -2.0 year ahead bonus on nuclear and computer techs in '49, whole reason I even bothered with expanding my spies then on. Figured out that it's the result you get when you don't have any techs to steal, so something like 'steal from army', which has 4 and 1/2 trees to steal from you'll rarely get anything from....Unless, you steal from a minor, who only has 2 research slots.

Right, that is the part that needs to be fixed. I highly doubt the developers intended for people to be stealing tech from countries that had nothing to steal. this only seems to be a problem in the industry tree, so I think everything else is fine. All we can do is not exploit this.

That's the issue though. If you're not stealing, there's almost nothing for you to do with your Spies. And they're limited to a bunch of traits that....don't really have an effect. The most I've seen is boosts to Coordinated Strike taking a mission from 5 or 7 building/AA destroyed to 'we wiped 3 states boss'. As it is, the way the system is setup, it's about quantity of agents, not quality, expressly due to the fact there's only one decent mission AND that they all take forever to work out. Imagine if you had 10 like in the mods, and you could be doing collab government while stealing bps and lower war support with propaganda? Suddenly the war in USSR is shortened by a year just from the fact you don't need to grab so much.

I find a lot of value in the intel they give on what someone elses templates are. For example, I can see if germany is going medium or heavy tanks and change my strategy accordingly. Of course if you're playing single or going by current meta in multi, this might not seem too valuable, but I think this is a limitation in the AI behavior or peoples slavish adherence to the meta. Thats not the fault of the spy system, because it's giving you a way to actually spy on what they are planning to do.

In the past people would do this with requesting licenses and see what their opponent was making variants for. Now you can see the variants and how many they have produced of each variant, directly from the espionage system. So it's purpose isn't to simply stealing blueprints, but watching what your opponent is producing.

All good ideas, need more like these.

1. This and there needs to be a possibility of agents being captured DURING the mission and ending it. As it stands, once a mission goes, it's impossible to stop it, and all the 'good' ones have 0% chance of failing.

2. Or multiple of any mission in one country. Right now, the 'optimal' way to do BP stealing is getting 8 spies, having two sit in countries with quieted, 50% networks, and 2 teams of three actually stealing them. Same applies to any other operation, but fact is there's no reason to run multiple other than Resistance or Collab against several enemy factions.

3. Aye, along with the option to build a resistance in core states. Germany had it's own resistance to the Nazi party, besides defectors and exiles; Why couldn't it be possible to give them a few boxes of demo charges and get them to sneak into a panzer factory to cripple the production, and prevent a war from starting? That, and there needs to be interplay between collab governments and resistance, given the whole notion is that said resistance will likely be in the new government.



Agreed on both, the fact is that if you're not a major that can afford a production hit, you don't touch spies until late game, when it won't be useful. And even for majors, the whole intel network collapsing if you don't give up a spy to maintain it is a problem.

That said, what would you want back with the issues and puppets? 'mean, there's no reason that can't be wrapped into the whole agency thing; there is such a thing as domestic intelligence beyond 'THAT SPY IS NOT OUR SPY'

i agree with all these points. I think there are a lot of wayc to improve on the spying. I'm surprised they haven't patched it yet. It's not like they haven't seen peoples suggestions, so i wonder if there is a design or technical detail that is holding them back.

 

[Gigaus]

Turkey can Core lots now. The decisions are difficult too easy.
Ottoman path has their own set of coring decisions but can't do the late game Turkey ones.

As Ottoman, I just cored Albania, Bulgaria and Greece, had already cored Iraq and Syria.
(now I regret MA for manpower)

Problem with going for the majors last is their agency defense gets stronger.
It sorta depends on what ya want or need.
Not in any specific order but I usually collaborate 1-2 countries, steal 1-2 planes from majors then as many industry bonuses I can get from minors.

Ah, BfB I'm assuming? Have yet to touch that because.....Not really interested in those countries, but eh, could poke.

And no, they don't because the AI is...well, bad. I've yet to be told a way to look at their agency upgrades, but generally they don't upgrade defense until you actually put a spy into their country. And even then, I've seen it where USSR or US will stay at minimum defense until I put two in or do a mission. If you focus on countries like China or the middle eastern countries, who have scant few factories to spare to build an agency without crippling themselves, you can get up to '39 or '40 before they even start boosting to 1 defense and increasing ops by 30 days. After that, you can focus on one of the majors for tech you know they'll have ahead of time because of focuses; Germany for Tanks, UK for Aircraft, Italy or Japan for Navy, USSR or Germany for Industry, and US for grab all. Generally want to save US for last or use first, since they're crippled agency wise until they 'wake'. Regardless, by that point you should have boosted a bunch of techs with +x% speed and -x years ahead, but still have stuff that they'll likely have that you can steal. 'especially useful for countries like China that's strapped for slots, but wants armored tanks or new planes. Or France when you want to focus on econ first but still want a medium tank, so you yoink the Germans VW and run away giggling.

Also, keep in mind, as facist or commie, when you take a country that has releasable countries-- Occitania for France, Croatia for Yogo-- they start with nothing relevant to agencies. Meaning, if for some reason you want to keep boosting tech once everyone has gotten protection, you can in theory either grab country and libertate, not puppet, someone, or release a defeated country you've fully occupied. The latter resets agents, but iunno about upgrades.

May you should be able to infiltrate the opposition parties or your puppets to decrese the autonomy, this would though need to have the Generic Focus tree to each branch having an option to go independent that unlocks if you are a puppet. As a player you probably never going to be a puppet nation with a generic tree going for independence but as a player with puppets, it could be intresting having puppets that might sometime go for indepenence or having enemies that's having unruly puppets.

Also i would add an option to activly build up the resistance in your cores or states with high compliance, In advance for an eventual occupation. Costing equipment and factories.

But much needed is Quality of Life improvent to be able to filter your operations by nation.

Have some way to reduce a political party's percent by using covert agents, rather than Foci or advisors, something like that? It would be interesting, though I will say that would mean rebalancing of some things, since you could in theory boost id yourself in a timeframe not intended for some paths. That said, it is possible, in theory, to boost id on a puppet, then force a coup, or just simply boost it to the point they flip id and split from their master as far as resources go. I will say, having a spy option for dealing with Yogo as Germany when they pull the whole 'we're going to put a boy on the throne' or something more than that would be interesting...

Actively building a resistance network would be historically accurate-- Germany and Japan tried to, then Japan got the shaft that doesn't care about resistance. Still, would be useful, and in limited cases overpowered. Imagine doing the fort sally against France or Germany around the M.Line, then having them run into 90% resistance states that shred their MP pool.

Right, that is the part that needs to be fixed. I highly doubt the developers intended for people to be stealing tech from countries that had nothing to steal. this only seems to be a problem in the industry tree, so I think everything else is fine. All we can do is not exploit this.

See, I disagree here; I think you should get something, but not the 300% and -2.0 years we get now. Getting a +50% is reasonable if you're robbing a country like say China who is technologically behind; You've basically wasted upwards of a year just to get a few days off of techs that cost anywhere from 100 to 300+ days. I -think- that was the intent, but as with most of the games in this engine....the coding did not carry.

And it is worth saying that, just because they're not a major power, doesn't mean that a given country wouldn't have meaningful research going on. A good chunk of the critical innovations that came out of WW2 came from 'minor' and colonial countries, or were made from bits of research from several involved. It's possible to see say Turkey, South Africa, or some other country that's out of the way of the war building up armor or air tech in preparation for the shit storm landing on their door. Kinda the whole idea with BfB.

I find a lot of value in the intel they give on what someone elses templates are. For example, I can see if germany is going medium or heavy tanks and change my strategy accordingly. Of course if you're playing single or going by current meta in multi, this might not seem too valuable, but I think this is a limitation in the AI behavior or peoples slavish adherence to the meta. Thats not the fault of the spy system, because it's giving you a way to actually spy on what they are planning to do.

In the past people would do this with requesting licenses and see what their opponent was making variants for. Now you can see the variants and how many they have produced of each variant, directly from the espionage system. So it's purpose isn't to simply stealing blueprints, but watching what your opponent is producing.

Eeeeh....In single, you're right, its worthless; it's AI, you know what you're fighting outside of custom rules, and even when you don't, brickfist strategies work best. In multiplayer, even when someone's going a non-meta build or something mission specific, generally it amounts to nothing; some things can't be counter, and some things are always countered. Of the remaining, most are beaten by one of two things, and that's that.

That said, knowing what they researched, and thus what you can steal, is useful. So is knowing where they intend to go, and what they haven't built up. Even so, the cost for that-- at least one agent-- is....It's not worth what you get. 90% of the time, brickfist works just fine anyway.

i agree with all these points. I think there are a lot of wayc to improve on the spying. I'm surprised they haven't patched it yet. It's not like they haven't seen peoples suggestions, so i wonder if there is a design or technical detail that is holding them back.

No, it's money. This is me speaking as a low level developer, albeit one out of work thanks to 2020, but games like these....They don't bring in a lot of money, even when it's one as widely used and recognized as HoI or from a company like Paradox. It's not like you can just sell skins or maps or new scenarios, not when there's modding right there and generally better.

No, they'll likely not touch this for....months if not years. They're going to focus on more DLC, especially these country-pack ideas like BfB and DoD which takes minimal effort and time-- they're just official mod packs that rejig the focus trees and introduce a unique resource to play with for countries that have the default tree. This will make them money, going back and fixing something people already paid for and can't return, won't.