Germany, WHAT are you doing?

[ltccone]

Playing as Japan, I joined the Axis in early '39. I had China in the bag, waiting for WW2 to start to finish defeating and annexing her, as I didn't want to shoot the tension through the roof.

When Germany declared war, I watched the progress of the Polish invasion. Right when Poland was on the ropes, Germany declared war on the Low Countries and pulled virtually every division out of Poland.

The Brits invaded Bremen, and landed in Danzig which was undefended after the Germans captured it and left it undefended (as an aside capturing territory with SR and transporting to a port REALLY needs to be fixed).

That is the information in the screenshots below.




Then the comedy of errors began.

After forcing the capitulation of the Netherlands and Belgium, destroying the Brit invasions, and pushing the French back to the Maginot, virtually the entire Wehrmacht was sent to Poland. Half a dozen divisions were left in Belgium, and ONE on the Franco-German border.

Almost all of the divisions left in Belgium were encircled and destroyed, and the French and British reclaimed most of Belgium. The horde of Germans finally knocked Poland out of the war, and most west AGAIN. Now the Germans are fighting in Belgium to reclaim what they lost, and are once again pushing the French back to the Maginot.

There has GOT to be a way to prevent Germany from DOWing ANY other country until Poland capitulates! AND a way to keep belligerents from emptying a front line of a country they are at war with!

 

[Praetori]

Then the comedy of errors began.

The quick fix would be to have the AI conditionally check through a series of equations for each "target" which then tells if it's feasible or not and to discontinue further efforts (such as grabbing for Norway without having naval supremacy) despite the NF being active (say wait 12 months and then check again).

The other strangeness is that the battle-planner actually seems to have some form of evaluation on the feasibility on a plan (risky etc) but those seem detached from the rest of the strategic reasoning by the AI. If that mechanic was always considered and ticking in the background (battle plan or not) then some flags for danger and minimum required divisions could be set and taken into account by the strategic/operational AI.

 

[ltccone]

The quick fix would be to have the AI conditionally check through a series of equations for each "target" which then tells if it's feasible or not and to discontinue further efforts (such as grabbing for Norway without having naval supremacy) despite the NF being active (say wait 12 months and then check again).

The other strangeness is that the battle-planner actually seems to have some form of evaluation on the feasibility on a plan (risky etc) but those seem detached from the rest of the strategic reasoning by the AI. If that mechanic was always considered and ticking in the background (battle plan or not) then some flags for danger and minimum required divisions could be set and taken into account by the strategic/operational AI.

Germany is about to complete their focus for Norway and Denmark. I'm betting half the German army will abandon France and go to Denmark when the focus completes.

 

[Sanny]

I also experienced this same issue. I don't know what changed but Germany was fine with version 1.1

 

[Miaow]

I have never seen this issue, but it appears to be tied to Germany failing to conquer Poland on the proper timetable. I wonder, are you using mods/sliders to make the European war harder for the Axis?

 

[rcbricker33]

The fix is to put the checks on the NF. The issue is not really the DOWing of the nations it is in the use of the NFs. The AI has to have an NF running if one is available to take. These are weighted based on whether you are playing "historical" or not. The AI also realizes that Justification do not last forever, so once it gets the CB it DOWS.

 

[ltccone]

I have never seen this issue, but it appears to be tied to Germany failing to conquer Poland on the proper timetable. I wonder, are you using mods/sliders to make the European war harder for the Axis?

No; the only mods I'm using are graphical and didn't use the sliders.

 

[Praetori]

I have never seen this issue, but it appears to be tied to Germany failing to conquer Poland on the proper timetable. I wonder, are you using mods/sliders to make the European war harder for the Axis?

The issue is pretty common with AI Germany and Japan attempting to do too many things at once. It also cannot fathom when something should be dead and buried (as in trying to take the Danish isles when there's a ton of Allied units defending them as opposed to just cutting off access to the Baltic).
The same can be said of the Allied AI when they land in Danzig to defend Poland which almost always ends up in a slaughter (there was good reason why the Allies didn't send forces to Poland historically).
I don't like when you have to give the AI the ability to "cheat" but it would be good if the AI could get some sort of information on hostile forces per state/supply-area or similar so that it can at least understand why abandoning the fight in Poland to go fight in the low-countries and then reverse it is stupid.

 

[Number 7]

germany doing the same bonkers AI things that gets complained about all the time. the ai is non functional

 

[ltccone]

germany doing the same bonkers AI things that gets complained about all the time. the ai is non functional

I've found the AI is better at defending than attacking.

 

[Meglok]

The issue is pretty common with AI Germany and Japan attempting to do too many things at once. It also cannot fathom when something should be dead and buried (as in trying to take the Danish isles when there's a ton of Allied units defending them as opposed to just cutting off access to the Baltic).
The same can be said of the Allied AI when they land in Danzig to defend Poland which almost always ends up in a slaughter (there was good reason why the Allies didn't send forces to Poland historically).
I don't like when you have to give the AI the ability to "cheat" but it would be good if the AI could get some sort of information on hostile forces per state/supply-area or similar so that it can at least understand why abandoning the fight in Poland to go fight in the low-countries and then reverse it is stupid.

There is an bug in the Sunflower patch that is causing issues in multiple front management for AI nations. You see it primarily in Germany or Japan, but the UK also can get burned by it. It may be in the way multiple front lines are organized under one Field Marshal and one front.

 

[D-Dave]

Yeah the AI clearly isnt working. The same thing happens to me most of the time. It's funny I payed money for an unfinished game.

 

[Nevrion]

I had China in the bag, waiting for WW2 to start to finish defeating and annexing her, as I didn't want to shoot the tension through the roof.

I am pretty sure that "I had someone in the bag" is a common german phrase ("Jemanden in der Tasche haben / Jemanden in die Tasche stecken") which doesn't work this way in english language. But as a german it's funny to understand it, nevertheless.

But the real problem is, I notice a lot of these problems with Germany since 1.2.1 here in the forum. I've played matches in 1.0 where Germany declares war to everybody in a similar way you describe, but was able to handle it. Since 1.2.1 front management of some AI countries seems damaged and I didn't saw Germany even defeat Poland since then.

 

[Zealuu]

I would like for the AI to have some hard checks on all War Goal NFs, because there are so many instances of Germany in particular just painting themselves into a corner by chain-DoWing without properly finishing wars first. It also happens to Japan (particularly if they struggle in China for years and then decide to go Nanshin-Ron/Pearl Harbor) and occassionally, even the US (randomly attacking Japan without any provocation). I'd trust the players to not need these checks as they can make better choices and decide for themselves when it's opportune to open a two-front war.

 

[Lykanion]

I am pretty sure that "I had someone in the bag" is a common german phrase ("Jemanden in der Tasche haben / Jemanden in die Tasche stecken") which doesn't work this way in english language.

It's proper (albeit informal) english:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/be-in-the-bag

 

[ltccone]

I am pretty sure that "I had someone in the bag" is a common german phrase ("Jemanden in der Tasche haben / Jemanden in die Tasche stecken") which doesn't work this way in english language. But as a german it's funny to understand it, nevertheless.

But the real problem is, I notice a lot of these problems with Germany since 1.2.1 here in the forum. I've played matches in 1.0 where Germany declares war to everybody in a similar way you describe, but was able to handle it. Since 1.2.1 front management of some AI countries seems damaged and I didn't saw Germany even defeat Poland since then.

You've got to love idioms.

in the bag

Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus, Medical, Acronyms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
Related to in the bag: half in the bag
*in the bag

1. Fig. cinched; achieved. (*Typically: be ~; have something ~.) It's in the bag—as good as done. The election is in the bag unless the voters find out about my past.

But to your point, Germany handled their fronts much better in 1.1. 1.1 had other issues, but not that.

 

[ltccone]

I would like for the AI to have some hard checks on all War Goal NFs, because there are so many instances of Germany in particular just painting themselves into a corner by chain-DoWing without properly finishing wars first. It also happens to Japan (particularly if they struggle in China for years and then decide to go Nanshin-Ron/Pearl Harbor) and occassionally, even the US (randomly attacking Japan without any provocation). I'd trust the players to not need these checks as they can make better choices and decide for themselves when it's opportune to open a two-front war.

Sounds like a good idea. I hope this is something Paradox is working on.

 

[Wyrm]

The issue is pretty common with AI Germany and Japan attempting to do too many things at once. It also cannot fathom when something should be dead and buried (as in trying to take the Danish isles when there's a ton of Allied units defending them as opposed to just cutting off access to the Baltic).
The same can be said of the Allied AI when they land in Danzig to defend Poland which almost always ends up in a slaughter (there was good reason why the Allies didn't send forces to Poland historically).
I don't like when you have to give the AI the ability to "cheat" but it would be good if the AI could get some sort of information on hostile forces per state/supply-area or similar so that it can at least understand why abandoning the fight in Poland to go fight in the low-countries and then reverse it is stupid.

One possible solution to the situation you describe is to have troop-transports prevented from moving through enemy controlled waters in the same way that naval invasions are.

 

[bERt0r]

This is not a Germany only issue. I saw this happen to the ussr too. Again, it is because the AI thinks troops move instantly and calculates with troops who are moving as if they are already at their destination.

 

[Nevrion]

1. Fig. cinched; achieved. (*Typically: be ~; have something ~.) It's in the bag—as good as done. The election is in the bag unless the voters find out about my past.

But to your point, Germany handled their fronts much better in 1.1. 1.1 had other issues, but not that.

Well, thank you. Learned something new. The whole thing remember me on "The cat is in the sack" from former irish football coach Giovanni Trappattoni, but good to know.

But you've got the point. Something went wrong from 1.1 to 1.2, and I'm afraid Paradox won't fix that very soon. It's disappointing, because it ruins each match. (except you play as germany, maybe ... )