Germany vs USSR

[DivineShadow]

When is it safe to say that germany has *won* the ussr? Since the USSR has won when he takes berlin and annexed the nazi...

But since when is taking moscow a victory? (assuming your extremely lucky enough to get that far).

Russia is just so big and very very vast it would be impossible for a human germany vs a human ussr to annex the ussr (assuming ussr knew how to play).

In one game where i tried to play historical and destroy ussr from within germany was able to get right up to moscow (although he couldnt take it) german TC was so fried his org regain was incredably poor and counter-attack started.

So its hard to say when germany has won since even if you took my moscow (although i dont think anybody can without a nuke) i wouldnt surrender and would fight to bitter end in sibiria.

 

[Evans]

When is it safe to say that germany has *won* the ussr? Since the USSR has won when he takes berlin and annexed the nazi...

But since when is taking moscow a victory? (assuming your extremely lucky enough to get that far).

Russia is just so big and very very vast it would be impossible for a human germany vs a human ussr to annex the ussr (assuming ussr knew how to play).

In one game where i tried to play historical and destroy ussr from within germany was able to get right up to moscow (although he couldnt take it) german TC was so fried his org regain was incredably poor and counter-attack started.

So its hard to say when germany has won since even if you took my moscow (although i dont think anybody can without a nuke) i wouldnt surrender and would fight to bitter end in sibiria.

I'd say once Stalingrad, Moscow, Leningrad, Archangelsk and Baku fall

 

[Brasidas]

Depends on how much IC Russia's built east of the Urals...

I'd say that if the balance of forces are significantly in Germany's favour (eg. 250 divs to 150), Soviet manpower is exhausted, and you own Sverdlovsk, Germany has effectively won.

Anything short of that, with a significant transural IC base, and the Russians can still come back from death's door to get you.

Then again, if Germany's still got a rear flank, the Reds could still make a comeback if the Wehrmacht has to turn west...

Nuke 'em from orbit. Only way to be sure.

 

[Evans]

It depends if you mean the point of defeat and where realistically the Soviet's would have surrendered or point of *actual defeat" in game. In the latter case it'd be game specific.

 

[DivineShadow]

It depends if you mean the point of defeat and where realistically the Soviet's would have surrendered or point of *actual defeat" in game. In the latter case it'd be game specific.

It would have been a lot easier irl (Had things gone differently) than what you would need to accomplish in game (To the annex is about as hard as you can get espeically with a good ussr).

 

[Kyril]

If SU gets to a point where it's IC cant support the cost of your supplies / reinforcements, your TC is freaked out, and your very low on Manpower, I think SU is defeated.

Didnt see it happen a lot though (in part to many games being abandoned or lost before SU even comes into play ), but did Annex a human SU with help of human China taking over Siberia (cheeky, I know now), and lost myself in a '38, also due to an attack in Siberia from Sino-Jap forces.

To prevent SU from continuing for ever though, we put in a rule in most groups that SU must accept BP if offered.

 

[unmerged(46319)]

When is it safe to say that germany has *won* the ussr? Since the USSR has won when he takes berlin and annexed the nazi...

But since when is taking moscow a victory? (assuming your extremely lucky enough to get that far).

Russia is just so big and very very vast it would be impossible for a human germany vs a human ussr to annex the ussr (assuming ussr knew how to play).

In one game where i tried to play historical and destroy ussr from within germany was able to get right up to moscow (although he couldnt take it) german TC was so fried his org regain was incredably poor and counter-attack started.

So its hard to say when germany has won since even if you took my moscow (although i dont think anybody can without a nuke) i wouldnt surrender and would fight to bitter end in sibiria.

I do enjoy that Russia is so immense. hoi1 russia was too small. i dont consider russia gone until the last partison is annhialated. Alexander the great and all

 

[Agressor]

When is it safe to say that germany has *won* the ussr? Since the USSR has won when he takes berlin and annexed the nazi...

But since when is taking moscow a victory? (assuming your extremely lucky enough to get that far).

Napoleon took Moscow in 1812 but never won the war.

So, fall of the capital doesn't mean defeat

 

[jonnyincognito]

When the Bitter Peace event fires?

When you can get them to accept peace demands?

Whenever they give up or get so mad they log off?

I guess it's something you should set up in the house rules. If bitter peace is too much, maybe modify the event so it takes less for it to trigger but gives Germany less when accepted.

Joshua