Germany still laughably easy game...

[CantGetNoSleep]

I gather La Resistance was meant to make it harder for Germany to snowball, but with the Collaboration Government mission, it remains laughably easy I find. Doing nothing but CIVs and going pretty historical (Anschluss, Sudetenland and Poland at the right time), setting up 3 collaborations in France and Poland, I end 1939 controlling all of mainland Europe 220 owned civs, 120 owned mils, 20 docks (I've not not even done my own naval focus), and basically it's already game over. No one has a chance.

Is it me or are collaboration government overpowered? I would even be tempted to delay the invasion of Denmnark and Norway just so I can set up collaboration governments.

 

[porta80]

Yes they are OP.

 

[blahmaster6k]

Germany is overpowered, but it has nothing to do with collaboration governments. It just has way more relative industry than it did historically, and has many army buffs other countries do not have. Game mechanics make it laughably easy to pull off Operation Sea Lion right after the fall of France in 1940 and end the war without the USA even joining, at which time you basically have won the entire game, since you for some reason are allowed to install puppet governments in Canada, DEI, Malaya, and India.

 

[kettyo]

Germany must be OP so AI can stand his ground with it.

When you're playing it you can buff your enemies.

 

[Eh up me duck]

I barely touch the occupation system and Germany is still way too easy.

The main reasons are, in my opinion -

A)France is ahistorically nerfed in order to help ai Germany. Which is fine except when you're playing as Germany and the French army is way smaller than it should be.

B)Soviet union is incapable of spamming infantry divisions. I'm no expert at this game but even so I know I can take my time vs the Soviets as they will simply fail to produce enough infantry divisions to counter you.

The second is most egregious in my opinion. The soviet union irl ended the war as a super power but in hoi 4 they're a complete push over.

 

[BlueTico]

I actually think it is fine for gameplay. The USA is actually underpowered and should be able to swamp everyone as they did in real life.

 

[Riekopo]

Any suggestions to make it more historical and difficult?

 

[marcelo r. r.]

need
+improvments of AI.
-cheap "tricks" to make german AI work.

its seems offensive war tools is OP at human controller, but most AI's cant carry it, so they try balance it creating unbalanced economy/politics for offensive countries.(GER, JAP).

German AI should be able to take France without need of theses cheese stuff like Italian early join(early creating 2 front war for France) or lack of Operation Weserübung , the AI on hoi2 worked very well, why we cant have this there?

 

[Simon_9732495]

I think I saw some Videos that AI vs AI Germany is losing now.

In every computer game it gets easy against default AI if you get better and better.
Solution: Buffed AI or Multiplayer.

Just making the default AI for the Allies better and keeping Germany the same would result in playing USA pointless, because UK and Russia would beat Germany alone.
Making all AIs better, would mean a lot of rebalancing and lead to the game beeing even harder for new players. (OFC improvements of the AI are highly welcome.)
I think there are plenty of newer players that struggle with Germany.

If you want a challenge as Germany in Vanilla:
- Strengthen UK slider to max
- Strengthen France slider to max
- Strengthen Soviet slider to max
- In mid to end 1939 (after poland) attack Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg in the same moment and don't call Italy in

(There are several other things you can do:
Use only historical divsions, import only historical (only from countries it was possible. [No Oil from USA and Iran while fighting the UK]). Don't cheese anything at all. [Don't farm army XP or generals, don't deploy divisions only to send volunteers, don't send air volunteers alone, get real naval superiorty for all naval invasions, not only for a short moment.... and so on... ] )

 

[DaleDVM]

Giving all of the allies 3-4 ticks of production on game setup screen helps. Expert AI mod on very hard/insane helps a lot. With these bonuses it starts to get difficult. In particular Expert AI's reduction to AI attrition and dynamic defense bonuses really help the AI. Not building any divisions larger than 27 width helps as well. I also set the AI major powers to build 26 width divisions. Don't cheese in general.

I also only give Italy and Japan 1 tick of bonus production... so it requires a lot of German support to get any progress in China. Italy needs a lot of help in Africa as well. This stretches your German divisions out and makes things a bit trickier.

 

[Eh up me duck]

I think I saw some Videos that AI vs AI Germany is losing now.

In every computer game it gets easy against default AI if you get better and better.
Solution: Buffed AI or Multiplayer.

Just making the default AI for the Allies better and keeping Germany the same would result in playing USA pointless, because UK and Russia would beat Germany alone.
Making all AIs better, would mean a lot of rebalancing and lead to the game beeing even harder for new players. (OFC improvements of the AI are highly welcome.)
I think there are plenty of newer players that struggle with Germany.

If you want a challenge as Germany in Vanilla:
- Strengthen UK slider to max
- Strengthen France slider to max
- Strengthen Soviet slider to max
- In mid to end 1939 (after poland) attack Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg in the same moment and don't call Italy in

(There are several other things you can do:
Use only historical divsions, import only historical (only from countries it was possible. [No Oil from USA and Iran while fighting the UK]). Don't cheese anything at all. [Don't farm army XP or generals, don't deploy divisions only to send volunteers, don't send air volunteers alone, get real naval superiorty for all naval invasions, not only for a short moment.... and so on... ] )

I have never allied with Italy. In fact allying with Italy makes playing as germany considerably harder as it gives the allies a free invasion point.

 

[Ethereld]

Game mechanics make it laughably easy to pull off Operation Sea Lion right after the fall of France in 1940 and end the war without the USA even joining

If you play against an United Kingdom played by a competent enough player that can use the Royal Navy and RAF to defend the islands you will see that there is nothing wrong with the game mechanics.

The real problem is the AI production logic and it's inability to properly address danger. The UK will move their fleet from one site to another leaving unprotected spots, they will have few planes protecting the Islands and the Channel and you also have their tendency to reallocate troops which leads them to lose what few divisions they have. AI UK is a pushover.

 

[mursolini]

I gather La Resistance was meant to make it harder for Germany to snowball, but with the Collaboration Government mission, it remains laughably easy I find. Doing nothing but CIVs and going pretty historical (Anschluss, Sudetenland and Poland at the right time), setting up 3 collaborations in France and Poland, I end 1939 controlling all of mainland Europe 220 owned civs, 120 owned mils, 20 docks (I've not not even done my own naval focus), and basically it's already game over. No one has a chance.

Is it me or are collaboration government overpowered? I would even be tempted to delay the invasion of Denmnark and Norway just so I can set up collaboration governments.

German Industry is way more, than it should be. If you set all allied majors to +5, and need yourself with 1 or 2 levels of difficulty, you should get a lot more historical industry balance. Add in expert AI, and you will get a fun, if somewhat a-histrorical game.

has many army buffs other countries do not have.

Which many army buffs are you talking about?

If you play against an United Kingdom played by a competent enough player that can use the Royal Navy and RAF to defend the islands you will see that there is nothing wrong with the game mechanics.

The real problem is the AI production logic and it's inability to properly address danger. The UK will move their fleet from one site to another leaving unprotected spots, they will have few planes protecting the Islands and the Channel and you also have their tendency to reallocate troops which leads them to lose what few divisions they have. AI UK is a pushover.

Competent UK player will beat Germany at plane spam ?

 

[Emden1]

I gather La Resistance was meant to make it harder for Germany to snowball, but with the Collaboration Government mission, it remains laughably easy I find. Doing nothing but CIVs and going pretty historical (Anschluss, Sudetenland and Poland at the right time), setting up 3 collaborations in France and Poland, I end 1939 controlling all of mainland Europe 220 owned civs, 120 owned mils, 20 docks (I've not not even done my own naval focus), and basically it's already game over. No one has a chance.

Is it me or are collaboration government overpowered? I would even be tempted to delay the invasion of Denmnark and Norway just so I can set up collaboration governments.

That is why I don't use collaboration..... too easy.... sigh.

 

[Palaiologos]

You can actually increase the difficulty you know. Thats what I do. Germany is only that easy as you say if you are gamey yourself. For example building infantry to meet the focus requirements and then switching templates to tanks or whatever, paradropping in France etc. On veteran difficulty or above I find the Allies swarm France with many more divisions that they did historically with 700 def mind you in 1940. Let alone their 3000 planes. Of course its beatable if you do the correct moves, but once that is done Sealion is easy to pull. I always go anti Soviet in my focus though and need to have 30-40 divs over there all the time, maybe thats why I cant easily punch through the Belgians.

 

[DaleDVM]

I find it bizarre that in the latest patch they changed collaboration results to 30% and 45%. I like that a bonus result now only adds 50% to the result vs the 100% in previous versions.

20% and 30% collaboration results would still be worth the investment, but not drastically OP like it is now.

 

[agonistes]

I think I saw some Videos that AI vs AI Germany is losing now.

In every computer game it gets easy against default AI if you get better and better.
Solution: Buffed AI or Multiplayer.

Just making the default AI for the Allies better and keeping Germany the same would result in playing USA pointless, because UK and Russia would beat Germany alone.
Making all AIs better, would mean a lot of rebalancing and lead to the game beeing even harder for new players. (OFC improvements of the AI are highly welcome.)
I think there are plenty of newer players that struggle with Germany.

If you want a challenge as Germany in Vanilla:
- Strengthen UK slider to max
- Strengthen France slider to max
- Strengthen Soviet slider to max
- In mid to end 1939 (after poland) attack Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg in the same moment and don't call Italy in

(There are several other things you can do:
Use only historical divsions, import only historical (only from countries it was possible. [No Oil from USA and Iran while fighting the UK]). Don't cheese anything at all. [Don't farm army XP or generals, don't deploy divisions only to send volunteers, don't send air volunteers alone, get real naval superiorty for all naval invasions, not only for a short moment.... and so on... ] )

woah woah woah, big fellah... getting naval superiority for a short window is only cheese if you trick your ships into not leaving port. If you have active patrols and a strikeforce, there is no cheese.

Its a concentration of force.

 

[Simon_9732495]

woah woah woah, big fellah... getting naval superiority for a short window is only cheese if you trick your ships into not leaving port. If you have active patrols and a strikeforce, there is no cheese.

Its a concentration of force.

I talk about putting all your fighters over southern england.
-> Then the Allies put all fighters there and have no fighters over the canal.
-> Then naval bombing the canal which leads to enemy naval superiority in canal of 3.000-5.000 instead of 20.000.
-> Then putting ~100 U-Boats on "support naval invasion" mission in the canal.
-> And start the invasion.

Opposed to using patrols and strike forces to engage there navy and reduce there speriority by fighting and sinking them.

 

[seattle]

I think the main reason Germany is OP is that oil still does not matter.

This is mainly because the civilian oil consumption is not simulated.
Historically, the European Axis required 20 mio tons of oil by 1941 and ran at a deficit of about 8 mio tons per year.

Only BICE simulates civilian oil consumption and nerfs Germany enough.

 

[Simon_9732495]

I think the main reason Germany is OP

Please define OP.
AI Germany loses the war against AI. So it's not OP in that aspect.

You mean as a player Germany is easier then other majors? I'm not sure about that:
- Soviet Union is super easy. Just deploy 500 equipped Infantry Divisions against Germany and let them push you until they have lost all there equipment and the Allies invade them.

- UK is hard for newer players because of the many theaters and navy. But to not lose you just have to protect England, Gibraltar, Suez and maybe Malaya. Then you bomb the Germans a bit and have them engage in the air war and the Soviets and USA will win the game for you.

- Italy, USA, Japan are also not that hard.

- The biggest challenge is maybe France, because they are set up to lose.

As Germany it has to be easy to conquer Poland Benelux and France. If you use this power for early strikes elsewhere, the game gets easy....