Germany AAR

[unmerged(4007)]

"Good Dr Pollock, we are not against the terms of reason you suggested, we truly do protest your characterization of Berlin. However, as a sign of our willingness to compromise, and seeing that indeed Wittenburg does have all the key aspects of centrality that we have argued for, we are willing to allow the movement of the capital, on a temporary basis, to Wittenburg. Subject to review in the future, of course.

We also would dispute the 'value' of Saxony being a seat to the King, as indeed, the point is these regional boundaries are a hindrance to our unity, not an asset. If we truly desire unity, I still say no greater symbol could be achieved than a former Saxon Prince seated as King in the former capital of Brandenburg over a united German confederation. As long as we are encouraged to think of 'Saxony' as Frederick's domain, the blood of those shed in our war of unification has been shed in vain.

That said, as I earlier stated, Wittenburg is to us an acceptable compromise for the time being."

 

[Warspite]

Enter into the house of our Father!

"Hello, I am Archbishop Gerd Zangle. Thank you for visiting the City Church of Wittenberge."

Born to a widowed mother of two in Kiel 1472. Gerd had a harsh childhood until the mother remarried and moved to Wittenberge in 1480. It was here Gerd rebelled against his wealthy merchant stepfather and was punished severely. Gerd was forced to a university to study in 1491 and eventually came to his senses and went into apprenticeship at the Wittenberge City (catholic) church 1499. He became a prominent figure within the cities priesthood quickly. Inheriting his stepfathers wealth in 1503 and then becoming the chief overseer of the Catholic church in the city, Gerd rose to archbishop in 1506 at the age of 33.
Gerd is the leader of the Catholic Church in Wittenberge and surrounding areas. He controls much church wealth and has some sway in city affairs. He was instrumental in helping and funding Elector Frederick's building of the Wittenberge University 1502. 1508 Gerd would be pleased to allow the new deacon Martin Luther to teach at the University. The two would have much to talk about in the future

 

[Zaan]

OOC: Wow! Warspite's back with a vengeance

 

[unmerged(7151)]

"I ask the Diet two things, one, is there any benefit for me keeping the capital in Dresden? No, I have no power to gain here. I travel as far as most of you. But I will agree to moving the Capital to Wittenburg if the Prince too agrees.

The second question I ask this Diet is were do our interests lie? In the Baltic were the Vicking states of Denmark and Sweden rule? Or in the West where the Poles and Lithuanians fight. No, our interests should lie in Germany. The Confederation, and a few strong German aliances are all that is standing in Austria's way to a hegomony. This war with Sweden is one just to support our allies, and is not important overall. We must increase our standings with the German states and add them to our Confederation."

 

[unmerged(3743)]

Originally posted by Teutonto
"I ask the Diet two things, one, is there any benefit for me keeping the capital in Dresden? No, I have no power to gain here. I travel as far as most of you. But I will agree to moving the Capital to Wittenburg if the Prince too agrees.

The second question I ask this Diet is were do our interests lie? In the Baltic were the Vicking states of Denmark and Sweden rule? Or in the West where the Poles and Lithuanians fight. No, our interests should lie in Germany. The Confederation, and a few strong German aliances are all that is standing in Austria's way to a hegomony. This war with Sweden is one just to support our allies, and is not important overall. We must increase our standings with the German states and add them to our Confederation."

Dr. Martin Pollock speaks following Count Gutz' recommendations.

While I must confess that I am suspicious of the sudden "about-face" in your position, from war to diplomacy; I must say that I am in complete agreement with these current statements of yours. We will support Denmark in their war versus Sweden if it comes to us, but since we have no direct land route to their territory and no navy to speak of, we really have no reason to become actively involved unless the Swedes foolishly attempt to bring the war to us. In the meantime let us do as Gutz says and strengthen our ties with Prince Frederick's cousins in Thuringia, or with the Elector of Mainz and Trier, or with the Hansa in Mecklemburg, or with the King of Bavaria, or any of our other fellow Germans. (OOC: Teutonto - You really shouldn't have responded to my accusations of your greedy intentions in Mecklemburg, at least not publically. Those were said in a "private" conversation with the Prince, thus its doubtful that you could have even overheard them. Of course, we all have our spies, so you may have been aware that I was trying to discredit you behind your back, but even then, it would not have been wise to reveal your knowledge of my dealings in the public assembly of the Diet.)

As for moving the capital to Wittenberg, I suppose there is no way to convince any of you that I suggest this out of anything other than selfish motives. I do confess that as Mayor of Wittenberg I desire to this city grow and flower into a cultural center for all of Europe. But, I say to you, this is all the more reason for our capital to be placed there. Why not move to a city that offers both economic, spiritual and intellectual possibilities. Thanks to Prince Frederick's penchant for collecting sacred relics, Wittenberg is rapidly becoming a major site for pilgrims - as I'm sure Archbishop Zangle will tell you (OOC: I wasn't aware that Wittenberg historically had an archbishopric, but hey, its all good!) This constant influx of pilgrims incidentally greatly increases our city's tourist revenues. Furthermore, with the opening of the new University, scholars and printers are flocking to Wittenberg from all across Europe. Soon we will be an academic center to rival even Florence. And Wittenberg, as the longtime seat of the Dukes of Saxony, already has the infrastructure necessay to support the regular assembly of the Diet. As it seems that most of you are willing to consider moving there as a compromise at least, I suppose we only await the approval of our lord Prince.

(OOC: McCollum - in game terms this would mean moving the capital from the province of Saxony to Anhalt I believe. It seems to me that the Diet is a fairly mobile institution so I wouldn't think that there would be any excessive costs to simply relocating the capital in a different city.)

 

[unmerged(7151)]

(He is not as shrewd as he should be, and stupidly goes out on whatever he thinks. He is also very suspicious of everything, so will do what he thinks to make himself better.

By the way, how do you change were your capital?)

 

[Sharur]

OOC: edit the savegame

------------------------------

"Sir Mayor, I must confess that I like your argument very much. Your compromise on the capital seems favorable as at least a temporary solution, if not more, and your words on potential diplomatic efforts ring true. I suggest the Diet make a movement on the issue of the capital, so that we can formally present our opinions to the Prince."

 

[Demetrios]

Hey all, Heinrich von Weimar will soon be arriving at the Diet. He's a distant relation of the old Landgraves of Thuringen, which was only a few decades ago incorporated into Saxony. With Weimar, I'll get first crack at Goethe and Schiller, if we ever get that far...

I'll try to post as much as I can, but for at least the near future, I will be busy doing beta work...

Gandalf - Wittenburg didn't historically have an archbishopric; Magdeburg was the seat of the local archbishop. However, it wasn't all that uncommon in this period for the local archbishop to make his main residence at the seat of political power, far from his actual seat (how many Archbishops of Canterbury actually spent all their time in London, after all?). So if we move the capital to Wittenberg, it wouldn't be too odd for the archbishop to reside there. Or maybe the Pope moved the Archbishopric for some reason - an idea for warspite to work on.

(If anyone else wants to play a bishop, the ones which were historically located in what is now our lovely new nation were in the cities of Meissen, Merseburg, Naumburg, Brandenburg, Halberstadt, Havelburg, Kammin, and Frankfurt-an-der-Oder)

IMHO, Wittenburg is still within the borders of EU2's Saxony province...

 

[unmerged(2952)]

Prince Fredrick the First of the Confederation of Northern German States was feeling pressured. Those damn nobles wanted his hide, and why? Because he had chposen the city of his birth as HIS capital. For just one instance he felt some sympathy for the Habsburg Emperor and a great deal of admiration to the French King of Paris. At least Lious the 300th, or what ever his name, didn't have to deal with such strong willed nobility. It made his blood boil.

And yet, they had him tied. If he didn't listen to their demands, there was a good chance they would not assent to new taxes when he was at war or, worse yet, not aknowledge his heir Fredrich Wilhelm. There was really no other choice..

And so, he conceeded it to them. It was the wise thign to do, the path of wisdom, and they always said he was a logical man. Thios was nto the battle to fight, nto with the costs it could bring. Wittenberg would be the New Capital, it wouldn't cost much, at least, and he'd let the Mayor of the City be the one to find loging for all of the members of the Diet. That was only fair as well.

 

[unmerged(4007)]

Baron von Lundsdorf outwardly carried himself as a man that had lost, who had "given in" for the sake of peace and the art of compromise. Inside, he knew he had triumphed--not totally perhaps--but almost. Once the capital had been moved, there would be no way to argue against it being moved again. And by necessity, the new location would allow Berlin to exert much more pull on the Diet.

Indeed, it was only a matter of time before Brandenburg would regain her former position of preeminence. Baron was a nationalist, he wanted a German nation as fervently as anyone. But in his heart, he knew there was only one place it could be led from. In every way, culture, finance, industry, Berlin was on the rise, and everyone knew it. Resisting its pull had taken all the Saxons had in them this time.

When his son was ready to put forward the cause again, there would be little doubt as to the outcome, especially if he could arrange himself politically. The issue of the capital would lie dormant. Lundsdorf would never initiate the movement debate again. But whenever it arose again, Berlin would triumph.

 

[nalivayko]

Taken from a letter of one Novgorod's merchant to another:

...Germans!.. They continue to amaze me. They don't even speak one language, but they dream of national unity! And their argument about the capital? Wittenburg? I cannot even find it on the map (OT: Somebody please tell me which province is it in game terms?). Now I am moving in for the kill... They argue about making Berlin a capital. They say that this old Slavic settlement is a symbol of German unity. How true of this nation - they'd rather steal a city and have it for their capital then build one anew. Berlin... No, really, this is too much. Everybody knows that this translates as "Lazy Bear" from one of the Western Slavic dialects. And to think that the city actually has a bear on its coat-d'arms... This makes me laugh so hard I forget about my trade...

 

[Sharur]

"Well, Baron von Lundsdorf, I'd say we've succeeded." Scherer happily drained some of his mug, then picked up a piece of lamb. "Wittenburg sets a good precedent, it does," he said, waving the leg around, "and Mayor Pollock is a good man, easy to work with. It won't be long at all, not long at all..." Scherer gave Lundsdorf a knowing smile.

 

[unmerged(4007)]

"Indeed, Baron Scherer, though I will never tell anyone else in the Diet, I am well-pleased indeed. If we can acquire some of the lands I hope we acquire in the next few years, the balance of power will swing even more favorably to us.

But in either case, we need to begin making arrangements with some of our friends from the former Saxon provinces. If we can get some of the Saxons to land in our camp, then we will gain all we could ask for. But in either case, the Duke is pleased with our efforts as well, we will be rewarded...what more can one ask for than to serve one's realm and be rewarded for the loyalty."

"If only Frederick the Wise understood that we do indeed have his best interests at heart." Scherer said, draining his ale.

"The loss of his wife wounds him too deeply. We have won all we can on this issue whilst he lives. In all other matters, he is indeed wise, so I trust his insight. We must show the King that indeed we are loyal to him, as I'm sure we will not be his favorites for some time."

"And when we gain his favor again?" Scherer asked.

"Then we advance ourselves politically closer to power. He knows that since I represent the wishes of the Prince of Brandenburg, sooner or later he will have to accept me into his graces, or risk losing his position with us. To invite anyone else into his counsel first would be to insult the Prince. That risks civil war, and a war between Brandenburg and Saxony helps no one but our enemies. We are agreed in the core issue, that unity of Brandenburg and Saxony is our one hope for glory."

"And Pommernia?"

"They lead wherever Brandenburg tells them. They have no choice. They will always be the weakest partner of the three, but unfortunately, they are also the loudest. Let them bray, we will make the decisions in the end. Saxony and Brandenburg, and Pommernia can either take it or lose what little sovereignty they have."

"Well said, von Lundsdorf. Come, let us return to chambers..."

 

[Intosh]

Konrad von Liechtenstein IV is no more a 18 years young lad, he is now 30, he developped his skills on the diplomatic theater and increased his own fortune and relations in the baltic trade realm


My fellows Lords,


I never speak in front of the Diet, but today I think that our policies should be changed.

I think that we should etablished our supremacy in northern germany not by being only the most powerful nation but also the richer.
To finance our Confederation, we need to control the trade in the Baltic Sea, we must give our merchant the means to conquer markets in Dantzig, Kurland, Novgorod and Mecklenburg. Even if it means one day to effectively controlled these markets.

We should give our merchants some privileges as per the normal Hansa rules...

OOC : I’m in favor of reinforcing the merchants against the aristocracy.

I don’t know how exactly work the DP sliders, can somebody explained them for me, how many modifications can be made, what are the effects (-1 stability I think).


Our policy cannot be a policy of war but if these damned Danes or Poles or Russians don’t want to give free access to their markets, it mean war exactly if they have invaded us.

Never shoud be Mecklenburg be invaded by another nation, this Center of Trade is vital for our Confederation and it will be good to see them united with us.

OOC : an embargo is a nice Casus Belli that should be used to gain some territories, especially against the Poles, because some of its western and northern territories can be considered as german... We should guarantee Mecklenburg independance...


When I see a map from ours neighbours, we should made alliance with the northern City States (Bremen, Holstein, Mecklenburg) to guarantee our markets and our economical survival.

After our alliance with the northern City States will transform into a more solennel union, we should look after friendship of the Teutonic Order, the Kingdom of Hungary and whatever german power will emerged west of us.

OOC : my first projects were to constituted a alliance whose small members will be one after another vassalized and/or annexed by us. After this alliance will be completed by bigger and more far nations...


Today, the situation is simple, who are ours ennemies :


First the Habsburg and their minions.

Against the Habsburg, we should have a military alliance whose forces can rivalize against them. They are our eternal ennemies.


Second the united national kingdom who surround Germany : the Danes, the Poles, the French, the Hungarian...

We are allied with the Poles and the Danes. Against our foreign neighboors, we should be friend and allies with some of them and neutral with the rest, until they treated our interests, and then we will become ennemies. We should allied with the Kingdom of Danemark, whose main interests are in Scandinavia and not in Germany. We should broke our alliance with the Poles, because one day, we will fight against them for the territories of Dantzig, West and East Prussia, and for the Livonia and Kurland...


Third : the german principalities who feel that our will of unification can be a threat for them.

Against the German principalities, we should try diplomacy to reinforce relations with them and convinced them to allied with us. First we should try with the small german city states, then the rest of northern german principalities, then the southern principalities.

First : Mecklenburg, Bremen, Holstein...

Second : Hesse, Hanover, Oldenburg

Third : Bavaria, Wurtemberg, Baden, Alsace-Lorraine...


If the City States have an alliance now, we should wait until this alliance disolved and create a new alliance with them, plus the Danes and maybe Poland or Bavaria or Hungary...


More about others topics later...


Bye,

 

[Intosh]

Hi everybody,


OOC totally :

I think, it can be a good idea to open a thread about ours RPG characters.

Each of us will post everything about his character in one post and event after event in his life, or his replacement by a new character, he will edit his post and make an upgrade.

Something as "Germany AAR RPG characters"...

What do you think about it ???


Bye,

 

[unmerged(3743)]

"Von Liechtenstein speaks wisdom despite his youth. I agree with nearly everything he has said regarding the future course of our nation. I especially agree that we need to become the leading partner of an alliance as soon as possible. I suggest that we let this current alliance w/Denmark and Poland run its course and then re-ally at our initiative w/Poland (to assist us in the event of a war w/Austria). We should then strive to ally w/as many German princes as possible, beginning w/those who border us. One by one we will diplomatically annex them until our borders stretch from France to Poland and from the edges of Denmark to Venice."

 

[unmerged(3743)]

Originally posted by Intosh
OOC totally :

I think, it can be a good idea to open a thread about ours RPG characters.
Each of us will post everything about his character in one post and event after event in his life, or his replacement by a new character, he will edit his post and make an upgrade.

Something as "Germany AAR RPG characters"...

What do you think about it ???

Excellent idea! I'll start...

 

[unmerged(3743)]

Originally posted by nalivayko
Taken from a letter of one Novgorod's merchant to another:

Wittenburg? I cannot even find it on the map (OT: Somebody please tell me which province is it in game terms?).

It's not listed as a capital city of a province in EU (though IMHO it ought to be). Though Demetrios thinks that it falls within the boarders of the Saxony province in EU, I tend to think that it would be within Anhalt. I base this opinion off of this map of Germany -- (link to a Map of Germany) -- since you can see from this map that Wittenberg is on the northern tip of the province of Sachsen-Anhalt as opposed to Sachsen which is further south. If you don't know where to look, Wittenberg is almost due north of Magdeburg, northwest of Berlin, and southest of Hamburg. Though it is mainly a tourist town in the 21st century, in the early 16th century it was on the rise as the the Ducal seat of the Saxon Princes and the home of the University of Wittenberg. Of course the posting of Martin Luther's 95 Theses in another decade or so will also do much to increase the notoriety of Wittenberg...

 

[Zaan]

OOC: On the porvince Issue. Please note that this doesn't have anything to do with the fact that I'm playing the Count of Brunswick. Wittenberg is accually north of Magdebrug and by that means it should be in Magdeburg or Barnadenburg province (prefferably the first one, because giving it to Brandenburg would ruin some of our plots). I don't know if there are any Germans here so I shall inform you that the current borders of German porvinces are way different from borders of Europa Universalis. Just to sum it all up - Capital should go to Magdeburg province. And now back to the roleplay.

Count Wilhelm layed on his bed now for almost a week, the diesease really got to him this time, he was not an old man but this sickness was costing him great deals of energy. A messenger came to his estate bearing news he had hoped for a long time. The capital was moving from Dresden to a more central location in the state, and so it happens that the location was right on his doorstep. "Only a capital on Magdeburg would be better" he spoke to his wife sitting by the bed "It is as I predicted, the Prince does not have the strenght to oppsoe his Brandenburg-dominated diet. The power balance is shifting and soon all will be up for grabs for us, the nobility" with that he choked a bit but then the sinister sneer of ambition that put Wilhelm in charge of what is now one of the richest counties in the confederation returned to his face.

 

[unmerged(4007)]

Mamut,

Umm, I have to disagree there. Wittenburg was clearly under the domain of Fredeirck the Wise RL. That's why he was put under pressure to deal with Luther initially when the Thesis were nailed to the door.

IRL the moniker "the Wise" was not attributed to him until after Luther's reappearence.