German wars vs Russia

[unmerged(24512)]

First, i'll tell the tale of my game, then i'll get to the point, scroll down if you only want to read about my horrible war and help a poor victim of the Russian bear.

I'm playing a game as Prussia/Germany. Had a great game till now. My plan was to play peaceful except the eventbased wars until the unification. I beat the danes in the 2 wars and turned Denmark into a satelite without taking any territory except their islands, which i sold to my close friend and later ally Russia for some claims. In my war against Austria, they were stronger than me, so i allied with Russia, and beat them and made them my satelite(i needed an ally after the unification..). War with France went smooth. Had both UK, Austria and Russia as allies there, though only UK helped(made it easier to transport troops to Amiens and march to Paris).

Anyway, of course, as soon as the unification happened, i wasn't able to renew my alliances with Russia and the UK, and as expected, Russia declared war on me. Luckily, they had many of their troops in Siberia and conquered Persia, and they had to fight my ally Austria, and they had a weak navy, so i managed to fight them back and sail to their capitol, and managed to make them pay war indemnities. The 30-40k a month i recieved from Russia helped immensely to pay off the 120k debt i had taken to build up once the unification hit. I built factories and railroads and some troops, and was soon first in industrial power, and 4th in military power(after the UK, Russia and the US).

Anyway, then, what i expected all along, but did not know how to prepare for, happened. First, France declared, and brings in her ally, the US. I send my troops to the French border. Then, Russia attacks. My satelites, Austria and Denmark joined me in both wars. France has 90 military power, i have 130 or so. The US has 180, Russia 320, Austria 70. I'm outnumbered. My plan becomes the same as the German plan in WW1, partially because of the location of the troops, strike France first. I have some troops stationed at the Russian border, or rather, a few provinces from the Russian border, making a front i think i might be able to hold for a while, if the Czar doesn't send all of his troops.. but he does. My Russian front collapses completely when hundreds of thousands of Russians pour over the borders, and i go running back to Berlin. In the mean time, i take Paris, and France accepts to pay me war indemnities I march the armies invading France back towards Berlin while i dig in there and wait for the Russian onslaught. I think i might be able to hold them off together with the Austrians, when disaster strikes. Austria signs a peace with the Russians.

The situation right now is this:

I have 400k men stationed in Berlin, which i can probably reinforce to about 550k or so. I also have 2 50k armies in provinces outside Berlin to try and prevent getting encircled. Outside Berlin, theres one army of 400k Russians, one army of 200k Russians, and a couple of 50k Russian armies. I dont know if these can be reinforced further. In southern Germany, i have stopped the Russian advance, and i have 240k troops there, while the Russians only have 100k. The problem, however, is that the Russians have 500k troops marching towards me from Austria and eastern Germany that i can see, and probably even more troops inside Russia. Additionally, they can probably get far more manpower to reinforce their armies than me.

I have never been invaded like this before. Any strategies or hints on how i can win the war and beat those damn Russians? I tried taking their capitol from the sea, but i did it too early and was stopped by a French and Russian navy.

 

[Spruce]

only one thing can save you = Russian onslaught,

1. Be sure you get some money to go diplo, perhaps sell stock of weapons. Go to your best friend and trade or buy weapon tech,

2. Be sure you have a "big" army of 400.000 soldiers and a smaller baby army. The baby army is keeping your monster army a retreat position,

3. Choose your best generals and put them in command,

the trick now is to kill that many Russians that they'll accept a white peace after a while,

this can be accomplished by both getting their war exhaustion very high and retaking your lost capital,

I've achieved this one time as Austria. My monster army was 350.000 men and my baby army was 150.000,

don't care about rebels they draw only small amounts of troops to them,

be aware = the baby army will save the big army on many occasions, because the battles may last for weeks - even a month or 2. So in dire straits you'll need to retreat,

 

[unmerged(24512)]

Thanks, i managed to get a peace, though not a white one. Got humiliated and lost 2 provinces. Still 1st though I used your tactic with some modification too, worked well. I often used 2 baby armies, and i had to send them in to help the big army a couple of times. Of course, i outnumbered the Russian attack when i sent them in, so i knew i would win the battle. The baby armies still helped to prevent my big army from being encircled.

The problem now, of course, is that in 3 years, my treaty with France will run out, and in 5, my treaty with Russia will run out. Any hints on how to stop them from declaring again, except for building up my army?

One other question: I did manage to significantly hurt the Russian army. They went down to 180 in military power. How do the Russians typically behave? Will they rebuild their army fast?

 

[unmerged(2238)]

I do think that is something people don't recognize, but they should. You CAN lose wars in Victoria--you lose one or two provinces and prestige, which hurts, but you can keep on going as a great power. And that's a small price to pay for having everything you have now that Germany is united.

 

[unmerged(24512)]

I do think that is something people don't recognize, but they should. You CAN lose wars in Victoria--you lose one or two provinces and prestige, which hurts, but you can keep on going as a great power. And that's a small price to pay for having everything you have now that Germany is united.

True, but theres also the problem that Germany's neighbors, particularily Russia, just won't stop declaring war. Is a war every 5 years against Russia and France worth it? I can't keep losing 500 prestige and 2 provinces in all of them and still win, thats for sure.

 

[Spruce]

True, but theres also the problem that Germany's neighbors, particularily Russia, just won't stop declaring war. Is a war every 5 years against Russia and France worth it? I can't keep losing 500 prestige and 2 provinces in all of them and still win, thats for sure.

you are right, have seen this too,

but if you follow the tactic I described, you have to get the Russian war exhaustion way high!!! Eventually they'll accept your white peace - and you loose zero! Only the attacker looses his prestige he invested in attacking you,

Get your big army in a nice defensive position - hill - forest region and let them bleed to death!

off course, this tactic is most helpfull if you have a huge manpower reserve and have put your defense budget way high before you mobilsed,

you should have a manpower between 1000-2000 - some nice tech's (the Russians aren't that evolved on the military tech level),

the problem is when the first big enemy armies are clashing with your big army, I had this situation where my big army was reduced to 100.000 (66% casualties) before I retreated, but the Russians had lost that many divisions they were on loosing ground,

 

[unmerged(20752)]

What i find useful is to reinforce the Russian front with fortifications on a defensive line of rugged terrain. Put the small armies there and deploy the large armies on your other terrain. This is a very solid defensive tactic.

Another is to do a reverse pincer encirclement. For example, go ahead and max fortify all of your front except for one open terrain province. Then put in a baby army into it but it is surrounded on the flanks with big-big armies - as soon as the AI jumps in - spring the trap by by using your big armies to encircle it's rear.

A modified version of it is to set a trap of two provinces deep and let the
AI pour in and then close the trap.

Also, trade techs when you can especially with UK (least threat to Prussia). But start your fortifications early on. what I love to do is to fortify the French front since it is very small and go gung ho on Russia. The amphib snatch on St Petersburg is always a charm once you go on the offensive.

Also take care of your experienced core troops - dont let them bleed to death in attrition battles as you need them as your shock/elite troops.

It is not best to let Austria in the fight as they are likely to fold and you have to worry about a longer front instead of a short one.

Also, the UK will prove to be a useful ally as they amphib invade sevastopol and the Russians pour troops into the area.

Also useful to have a second echlon of reserves to plug in holes in your front or assist in attacking.

Sweden can also be a useful ally.

You must have quick calvary for encirclement.

Use your terrain to your advantage. Have a second line of defence to back on in case things don't go well at the front.

Use your colonies as trade for land or techs (once you get the prestige of claiming them - it's a pain defending them).

 

[Annexation]

I use buffer states such as Lithuania to keep the Russians at bay. Since you have mil access through it anyway, you can still attack. Just make sure don't let them get involved in the war. Let Austria take the hit and you can hit France first.

 

[Judge]

One strategy that I have used is to release Poland as vassal during the war and then consider giving up some provinces to the Russians for peace. That will buy you some time. It worked fine for me at least since I later managed to take back my provinces and take a bunch of other provinces from the Russians

 

[Darkrenown]

Eventually they'll accept your white peace - and you loose zero! Only the attacker looses his prestige he invested in attacking you

No, since in that case Russia would still be on Germany soil it would probably have a postive war score, so Germany's prestiege loss will be whatever Russia's WS is.

 

[barleyman]

Such sweet stories. My own experiences are a little contrary. I start by attacking some of the minor german states to grab iron and sulphur. After a bloody conflict I manage to satellite or annex or at least make separate peace with everyone, so far so good.

Only the bloody danes have allied with russians and DOW me. Oops. I manage to rush denmark and claim some provinces while keeping russkies at bay. Only after 5 years, they DOW me again and austria does not honor their alliance - I get whipped bad and have to concede 5 provinces to russians to buy separate peace. After that I walk all over denmark and satellite them.

Outresult of all that soldiering is that my economy is in ruins and the deficit has increased loan interests so high it's not possible to make profit anymore. Time to give up. :wacko:

I cannot raise larger reserves since there isn't enough population in prussia.. I got as high as 19 million but warring quickly dropped it down to 17 million. Apparently you can only have 1 reserve / million people? Or at least it always says "you don't have enough pops to increase reserves" Trying to be nice doesn't pay off since Danes always DOW you and in both of my games as prussia they had alliance with russia.

Is there any way to stop russkies form kicking in the door in so that the whole rotten structure collapses? Not going grabbing minor states so I keep my south german allies? Allying with the russians? I have a sinking feeling that they'll decide to honor their alliance with danes instead..

 

[barleyman]

Oh yeah, I have trouble making €€€ as well. I noticed that you only get good prices from technology sales from people who like you. But trying to cultivate your relations with Brazil etc is rather frustating. Pouring money and DI to get "hardly improved" 6 times straight can get on your nerves. I wonder if there's the same "let DI accumulate"-bonus to diplomacy as in HOI?

 

[unmerged(760)]

i managed to annex almost all of russia once. not as prussia but as austria though. the key was to weaken russia wherever possible. so i made the ottomans and prussia best friends and allies, traded the ottomans and china weapon techs (that was 1.02 without prestige penalty) and used defensive tactics until austria was strong enough to backstab russia when it had high WE.

how can this help you? maybe you want to trade key techs to russias enemies? maybe you can get another strong ally at the russian front line? you can also conquer some weak uncivlized nations, release them as satellites and thus lower your BB. eh, and did you also raise mapowerpool to maximum, that will significantly raise your miltary rating and the chance someone attacks you

 

[Spruce]

No, since in that case Russia would still be on Germany soil it would probably have a postive war score, so Germany's prestiege loss will be whatever Russia's WS is.

IIRC I didn't loose prestige, I'm not 100% sure to be honest,

 

[unmerged(3921)]

130 Military rating and you're going to fight Russia? Rofl....

In V1.03, the Russians are big, bad and nationwide....errr global wide....

Seriously, I wouldn't even think about going to war against Russia without a 300+ military rating. And even then, I'd want allies. In V1.03 Russia industrializes REALLY FAST and becomes the biggest industrial power in the game. As a result they can field a lot of divisions, and they're modern to boot.

 

[unmerged(24512)]

MacroEconomics.. They declared war on me, not the other way around.

And now, 5 years later, they declared again. Getting boring. I am managing to hold off their attack though, but i'm losing tons of cash, going into debt, and i can't attack them because i don't have the manpower to reinforce my armies. I have taken St Petersburg from the sea though(8 battleships sunk 85 inferior Russian ships ), but they still won't accept peace.

 

[unmerged(3921)]

Leiv, I'm just saying that if you are going to trigger a sequence of events that you know will result (or will probably result) in your fighting Russia, then you really want to prepare for that. Trust me, I've been on the pummeled side of a Russian Ai attack just as you have. You only need to have that happen once and then you'll take them seriously for ever more.

 

[ladner]

First off, there is some exceptional advice in this thread on how to wage war effectively. I have difficulties in the past, and now realize the error of my ways in neglecting the cavalry. I have had significant success by creating a trap in method mentioned in this thread and then having reserve corps, compossed entirely of cavalry to hit an enemy already engaged against an infantry corps. The higher morale and high shock attack of the cavalry tends to devestate an already engaged enemy.

 

[unmerged(2238)]

130 Military rating and you're going to fight Russia? Rofl....

In V1.03, the Russians are big, bad and nationwide....errr global wide....

Seriously, I wouldn't even think about going to war against Russia without a 300+ military rating. And even then, I'd want allies. In V1.03 Russia industrializes REALLY FAST and becomes the biggest industrial power in the game. As a result they can field a lot of divisions, and they're modern to boot.

I've found they're big bad and evilly powerful as well... UNLESS they get knocked on their ass early in terms of prestige--then they have trouble industrializing and getting goods (they certainly have enough commodity goods, of course...). My current game they got knocked around by the UK, Prussia and me (Sweden) early and lost a load of prestige. Ever since they've been playing catchup.

So my advice: beat Russia early or get ready to BE beat by Russia.

 

[unmerged(24512)]

Leiv, I'm just saying that if you are going to trigger a sequence of events that you know will result (or will probably result) in your fighting Russia, then you really want to prepare for that. Trust me, I've been on the pummeled side of a Russian Ai attack just as you have. You only need to have that happen once and then you'll take them seriously for ever more.

I did prepare and did win the first war. I made sure to have a better navy than them that time, and i invaded their capitol, and their allies capitol(athens). The mistake i made in the second war was going for their capitol before i had finished off France, which resulted in me losing to a combined Russian and French navy. Of course, another thing that made me lose the second war is the fact that it was a 2 front war.

Anyway, for the war i'm having now, i think i'll have to destroy a lot of Russian divisions early to stand any chance at all. I'm figuring i'll let one of the forts i've built to form a defensive line stand poorly defended, so that they'll attack and i can fill their retreat route and reinforce the fort during the attack. Or alternatively, i could leave it completely defenseless. Is the fort of any use to them if they don't control the province?