German Reich - Isn't there a better name?

[hwoosh]

BTW, nations in HoI4 have an ideology-name, so Germany is only the German Reich while it's fascist.

So...whoever said early in this thread that the game does not have dynamic country names...was just mistaken? I'm a little confused now

 

[Gamer_1745]

BTW, nations in HoI4 have an ideology-name, so Germany is only the German Reich while it's fascist.

So the country names are dynamic? If the Soviet Union is no longer communist it changes to Russia?

 

[Gamer_1745]

So...whoever said early in this thread that the game does not have dynamic country names...was just mistaken? I'm a little confused now

That was me and I was working off what can be done with HoI3. :blush:

 

[Darkath]

That was me and I was working off what can be done with HoI3. :blush:

There is almost nothing left of Hoi3 in Hoi4. Contrary to EU4 that has tons of leftovers from EU3, Hoi4 will be a completely new game.

 

[Darkath]

BTW, nations in HoI4 have an ideology-name, so Germany is only the German Reich while it's fascist.

Is it like Victoria II then ?

If germany becomes democrat or communist the flag and name change ? Meaning most countries have 3 flags/names for each possibility ?

 

[heliostellar]

That A in USA is looking angrily at you from a corner for omitting it :unsure:

We usually call ourselves the "United States" or the "US" so tell the A to take a seat.

 

[Alliegorical]

That A in USA is looking angrily at you from a corner for omitting it :unsure:

The proper shorthand names for the United States of America are United States or US. The abbreviation USA is a common informal use, but you will almost never see it used in government documents or spoken officially in a diplomatic character.

 

[Ted52]

I see. And United States of America would be too long name i suppose.

Yes and no. It is too long for the UI, but okay for the map and the ingame text.

 

[Darkrenown]

Is it like Victoria II then ?

If germany becomes democrat or communist the flag and name change ? Meaning most countries have 3 flags/names for each possibility ?

Just names, but yes.
(Changing flags would make sense too, but is currently not implemented)

 

[Ted52]

BTW, nations in HoI4 have an ideology-name, so Germany is only the German Reich while it's fascist.

Yuuuuss! Rejoice! Victoria III confirmed!

...wait, what?

 

[Ted52]

Just names, but yes.
(Changing flags would make sense too, but is currently not implemented)

Go! Implement it!

This German flag you are using doesnt make sense for a democracy

 

[jakt]

BTW, nations in HoI4 have an ideology-name, so Germany is only the German Reich while it's fascist.

so like this is a thing?

fascist: American Empire / Imperial America

liberal: United States

communist: People's Republik of Amerika

 

[Captain Frakas]

Because those are translatable
Reich isn't really translatable, no, as its connotations are different enough from those of any English term so as to make it really hard to map to an English lexeme.

Realm, empire or riche seem to quite goodly translate Reich:

realm, n.
Pronunciation: Brit. /rɛlm/ , U.S. /rɛlm/
Forms:
α. ME raume, ME reaume, ME reaune, ME reavme, ME reawme, ME reawn, ME reeaum, ME reiaume, ME (17 hist.) reaum; Sc. pre-17 reaume.

β. ME reum, ME reume, ME revme, ME rewhme, ME rewm, ME rewwme; Sc. pre-17 reume, pre-17 reuym, pre-17 revm, pre-17 revme, pre-17 revyne (transmission error), pre-17 rewme.

γ. ME raime, ME reamme, ME reamne, ME reem, ME reeme, ME regme (perh. transmission error), ME rem, ME remme, ME reome, ME rewe (transmission error), ME reyme, ME–15 reme, ME–16 ream, ME–16 reame, 15 rayme (north.); Sc. pre-17 reime, pre-17 reme; N.E.D. (1904) also records a form ME reiem.

δ. ME reaulme, ME reiaulme, ME–17 realme, ME– realm; Sc. pre-17 raellme, pre-17 ralm, pre-17 ralme, pre-17 reallem, pre-17 reallme, pre-17 realme, pre-17 realmme, pre-17 reaulme, pre-17 relm, pre-17 relme, pre-17 revalm, pre-17 rewlm, pre-17 ruelme, pre-17 17– realm.

Etymology: < Anglo-Norman realm, reaum, rewme, reawme, reume, ralme, Anglo-Norman and Old French, Middle French realme, reaume, Anglo-Norman and Middle French reame, Middle French reaulme kingdom (c1100 in Anglo-Norman as reialme ) < an unattested post-classical Latin form *regalimen , alteration of classical Latin regimen regimen n. after rēgālis regal adj. (although the alteration may alternatively have occurred within French). Compare Old Occitan reierme (c1200), reialme (13th cent.), rialme (first half of the 14th cent.), realme (1370), reiaume (1391), riaume (1397), reyalme (1401), reaume (1402), Catalan reialme (14th cent.; formerly also as †rialme , †realme ), and also Spanish †realme , †reame , Italian †reame (late 13th cent.; both ultimately < French). Compare rialme n., royalme n.
The α. forms with -u- and -w- ultimately arise from vocalization of the original -l- of the etymon, either in French or within English. The β. forms and γ. forms show regular reduction of the triphthong -eau- to -eu- in Middle English and subsequent monophthongization of the resulting diphthong before a labial. The etymologically motivated spellings with -l- represented by the δ. forms appear somewhat later; realm was preferred by some orthoepists from the late 1500s, although the form without -l- (pronounced with the reflex of Middle English open ē) was still more commonly prescribed in the 16th and 17th centuries. The current pronunciation with short e arose from shortening of the vowel before the consonant group lm in early modern English (see E. J. Dobson Eng. Pronunc. 1500–1700 (ed. 2, 1968) II. 475).

[...]

3.

a. A region, a territory; the sphere which something affects or controls. Also fig.
?a1425 (▸c1380) Chaucer tr. Boethius De Consol. Philos. ii. pr. ii. 94 Thow that art put in the comune realme of alle, desire nat to lyven by thyn oonly propre ryght.
1557 Earl of Surrey et al. Songes & Sonettes sig. L.iiiiv, To thee therfore that trottes still vp and downe: And neuer restes, but runnyng day and night, From realme to realme.
1679 J. Bancroft Trag. Sertorius iii. v. 30 Tell Mithridates, Cappadocia, And the Bithynian Realms, are his again.
1707 I. Watts Hymns & Spiritual Songs iii. 189 Were the whole Realm of Nature mine, That were a Present far too small.
1726 E. Young Universal Passion (Satire the Last) 4 A realm of death! and on this side the grave!
1796 I. Kelly Ruins Avondale Priory II. xii. 210 If you have spirit to persevere, affluence is your's; if in a distant realm, what then?
1830 Tennyson Recoll. Arab. Nights x, in Poems 54 Through the garden I was borne—A realm of pleasance.
1899 T. C. Allbutt et al. Syst. Med. VI. 626 Loss of sensory and motor power in the realm of the nerve affected.
1924 W. B. Selbie Psychol. Relig. 80 Though the term unconscious is used very loosely by Freudians it generally means a ‘realm’ where various emotions which have from time to time been repressed, lie hidden.
2007 New Scientist (Nexis) 11 Aug. 47 Scientists..will have to solve the hard problem of exactly how a desire in the mental realm can cross into the physical world and cause something to happen.

empire, n. and adj.
Pronunciation: Brit. /ˈɛmpʌɪə/ , U.S. /ˈɛmˌpaɪ(ə)r/
Forms:
α. ME empeyr, ME enpir, ME enpyre, ME 16 empir, ME–15 empyere, ME–16 empere, ME–16 empyre, ME– empire, 15 empeir, 15 empeire, 15 emper, 15 empeyre, 15 empier, 15 empyr, 15–16 empyer; Sc. pre-17 empyir, pre-17 empyr, pre-17 empyre, pre-17 17– empire; N.E.D. (1891) also records forms ME emper, ME empyr.

β. ME ampyre.

γ. ME imparre, ME ympyre, ME–16 impire, 15–16 impyre; Sc. pre-17 impir, pre-17 impire, pre-17 impyir, pre-17 impyre.

Also with capital initial.Etymology: < Anglo-Norman emper, empere, empir, enpire, Anglo-Norman and Middle French, French empire (noun) extensive territory under the control of a supreme ruler (c1135 in Old French), power, authority (1139), supreme dominion, sovereignty, authority (1334 or earlier), the Holy Roman Empire (a1399 or earlier), the reign of an emperor (a1444 or earlier), the aggregate of territories under the control of Napoleon I as Emperor of the French (1804), the aggregate of territories under the control of Napoleon III as Emperor of the French (1852), (adjective) (of clothing, furniture, etc.) characteristic of the period of the first French empire (1833) < classical Latin imperium imperium n.

Compare Old Occitan emperi , Catalan imperi (13th cent.; also †emperi , 15th cent.), Spanish imperio , †emperio (both first half of the 13th cent.), Portuguese império (14th cent.; 13th cent. as †emperio , †empeiro ), Italian impero (second half of the 13th cent.; c1225 as †imperio ).

Compare empery n. and foreign-language forms cited at that entry.
The concept of imperium evolved through the classical Latin and post-classical Latin periods in ways broadly similar to that of imperātor (see discussion at emperor n.).


A. n. I. Senses relating to a territory or group of territories with a single ruler or shared source of authority.

[...]

2.

a. An extensive territory under the control of a supreme ruler (typically an emperor) or an oligarchy, often consisting of an aggregate of many separate states or territories. In later use also: an extensive group of subject territories ultimately under the rule of a single sovereign state.Freq. with distinguishing word; some examples of this type, as British, Eastern, German, Roman, Western Empire, etc., are treated at the first element.
a1350 Short Metrical Chron. (Rawl.) 87 in PMLA (1931) 46 147/1 (MED), All thys were of hys ampyre.
▸a1393 Gower Confessio Amantis (Fairf.) viii. l. 210 God hath beraft him [sc. Gayus Caligula]..his large empire.
?a1400 (▸a1338) R. Mannyng Chron. (Petyt 511) ii. 6 (MED), Adelard of Westsex was kyng of þe empire..guyour of ilk schire.
a1500 (▸a1400) Libeaus Desconus (Calig. A.ii) l. 843 A sercle..Of stones and of golde: Þe best yn þat enpyre.
1564 J. Bradford Frutefull Treat. against Feare of Death sig. D.vii, Daniel plainly sheweth yt the beastes, that is the empires of ye world: shalbe cast into ye fire.
a1616 Shakespeare Antony & Cleopatra (1623) i. i. 36 Let the wide Arch of the raing'd Empire fall.
1668 P. Rycaut Present State Ottoman Empire (new ed.) ii. xi. 127 The Shii are opposed by the Subjects of the whole Ottoman Empire, as the most heretical of any of the rest.
1685 D. Abercromby Disc. Wit xiv. 215 When he [sc. God] pleases to make choice of Women to rule over great Empires.
1709 F. F. Catrou tr. N. Manucci Gen. Hist. Mogol Empire (title-page) The general history of the Mogol empire, from it's foundation by Tamerlane, to the late emperor Orangzeb.
1775 E. Burke Speech Resol. for Concil. Colonies 28 An Empire is the aggregate of many States, under one common head.
1776 Gibbon Decline & Fall I. iii. 60 The great chain of communication, from the north-west to the south-east point of the empire, was drawn out to the length of four thousand and eighty Roman miles.
1809 J. G. Jackson Acct. Empire of Marocco vii. 112 The houses at Mogodor are built as in other towns of the empire.
1852 Tennyson Ode Wellington i. 2 Bury the Great Duke with an empire's lamentation.
1883 Helena (Montana) Independent 2 Aug. 4/1 The astonishing growth of London is accounted for by its being the center of..an empire which ramificates all over the world.
1917 Crisis May 44/1 King of Wallou, Goudar and Bekember which are subsidiary states in the Abyssinian empire.
1980 Time 23 June 20/1 The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is not just a country, but an empire—the largest and probably the last, in history.
2005 Gay Times Dec. 80/2 During the long rule of the Ottoman Turks..in order to wield power in such a huge empire of differing faiths and nationalities, the influence of imams and priests was kept firmly under control.

b. With the (and in later use usu. with capital initial), used to refer to certain specific empires.
[...]

†3. A country that is not subject to any foreign authority; an independent nation. Obs.
1532–3 Act 24 Hen. VIII c. 12 This realme of England is an Impire.
1698 S. Johnson Confut. of Ballancing Let. 17 There was never such a scorn put upon the English Nation, which is a free independent Empire.
1765 W. Blackstone Comm. Laws Eng. I. 242 The legislature..uses..empire..to assert that our king is..sovereign and independent within these his dominions.

† riche, n.

Forms:
α. eOE riice, OE ric (chiefly Northumbrian), OE ryce (rare), OE–eME rice, lOE–ME riche, ME rich, ME ryche.

β. OE rika (genitive plural), ME rik (north.), ME rike (chiefly north.), ME ryke (north.); Sc. pre-17 rik, pre-17 ryk, pre-17 ryke.

Etymology: Cognate with Old Frisian rīke , rīk (West Frisian ryk ), Old Dutch rīki (Middle Dutch rīke , rijc , Dutch rijk ), Old Saxon rīki (Middle Low German rīke , rīk ), Old High German rīhhi (Middle High German rīche , rīch , German Reich ), Old Icelandic ríki , Old Swedish riki , rike (Swedish rike ), Old Danish riki , righæ (Danish rige ), Gothic reiki , all in senses ‘authority’ and ‘area of authority, realm’; related to rich adj.: see discussion of further etymology at that entry.
Forms in -ch- reflect palatalization and assibilation of the original velar plosive /k/ in Old English (almost certainly already present in the Old English α. forms but not distinguished in spelling until the Middle English period); the β. forms (which clearly show a velar /k/ rather than palato-alveolar affricate /tʃ/ ) may result partly from analogical levelling within the paradigm from forms where assibilation may not have taken place before a back vowel (compare the isolated Old English example in quot. OE at sense 1β. ) and partly from the influence of the Scandinavian cognates (see further K. Luick Hist. Gram. der englischen Sprache (1940) I. ii. §§690.4, 701, A. Campbell Old Eng. Gram. (1959) §438, R. M. Hogg Gram. Old Eng. (1992) I. §7.42).

In Old English usually a strong neuter; however, a strong masculine by-form is occasionally attested, and a strong feminine is found once in an isolated attestation. The form ric (chiefly Northumbrian) appears to show attraction to the a-stem declension.

1. Royal power, sovereignty; (more generally) rule, dominion, authority. Also: a kingdom, realm, or royal domain; any area subject to the relevant authority, as an earldom, a diocese, etc.
α.
eOE King Ælfred tr. Gregory Pastoral Care (Hatton) (1871) l. 391 He him sealde ricu oðerra kynrena, & manigra folca gestreones hie wieoldon.
OE Beowulf (2008) 1390 Aris, rices weard, uton hraþe feran.
OE Blickling Homilies 187 Ure bisceopas geond eal Romana rice.
OE Ælfric Old Test. Summary: Kings (Julius) in W. W. Skeat Ælfric's Lives of Saints (1881) I. 384 Þa forseah se ælmihtiga God þone Saul.., and hine of his rice awearp.
lOE Anglo-Saxon Chron. (Laud) anno 1006 Brihtwold biscop feng to þam rice [lOE Domitian A.viii to ðan biscopstole] on Wiltunscire.
lOE Anglo-Saxon Chron. (Laud) anno 1102 Se eorl Rotbert..hæfde þone eorldom..& micel rice þærto.
?a1160 Anglo-Saxon Chron. (Laud) (Peterborough contin.) anno 1140 His sune Henri toc to þe rice.
?c1200 Ormulum (Burchfield transcript) l. 7011 Himm [sc. Herod] ȝifenn wass þatt riche.
c1225 (▸?c1200) St. Katherine (Bodl. 34) (1981) 4 (MED), He set a kineseotle i þe moder-burh of Alixandres riche.
a1300 (▸a1250) Physiologus (1991) 423 Elpes arn in Inde riche, On bodi borlic, berȝes ili[ch]e.
▸a1393 Gower Confessio Amantis (Fairf.) i. 2278 (MED), To sechen al the worldes riche, Ther was no womman forto love.
c1400 (▸?c1380) Pearl 919 (MED), Þou tellez me of Jerusalem, þe ryche ryalle.
c1600 (▸c1350) Alisaunder 58 Ryght was þat þis renk reigned hym after, To bee crouned a king in his right riche As maister of Macedoine.
β.
OE Glosses to Boethius (Corpus Cambr. 214) in W. C. Hale Edition & Codicol. Study CCCC MS 214 (Ph.D. diss., Univ. Pennsylvania) (1978) 288 Haec regnorum potestas beatitudinis auctor est : þes rika anweald eaddinysse ealdor ys.
▸c1300 Havelok (Laud) (1868) 290 (MED), Sho was þe rithe eyr Of engelond, of al þe rike.
a1400 (▸a1325) Cursor Mundi (Vesp.) l. 24821 Til erls and baruns o þat rike [Coll. Phys. rik, Fairf. cuntree], þan gaf he serekin giftes.
a1450 Rule St. Benet (Vesp.) (1902) 2238 (MED), Þen sal þe bisschop of þat rike Swilk a priores sone depose.
1488 (▸c1478) Hary Actis & Deidis Schir William Wallace (Adv.) (1968–9) ii. l. 359 Bot Wallace..In Ingland fer socht battaill on that rik.
a1500 (▸a1460) Towneley Plays (1897–1973) 103 (MED), Is none in this ryke a shepard farys wars.

One difference is, however, that the main understanding of Reich is not the main understanding of realm or of empire, especially among less educated people. Worse, the word riche is now out of use. More importantetly, those three words would not much catch the flavour of a World War II game (especially the late one who would sound like we are in CK2 or in EUIV ).

Anyway, a translation is not really needed as the intend of German Reich in HOI4 is not to translate Deutsches Reich but to suggest Nazi Germany or Fascist Germany. As it was said previously by others, it is absolutely not the meaning of Deutsches Reich : while a liberal representative but not defeated Germany might still have been the Deutsches Reich (as was Weimar's Germany), it would not be labelled "German Reich" in game.

So it's not that Reich is not translatable but rather that Reich is not desired to be translated as it is used somewhat as an "English" word on its own.

 

[Introvertiert]

6 pages about this topic?

I'm completely fine with German Reich

 

[Epicduke]

6 pages about this topic?

I'm completely fine with German Reich

Used to be much longer before the forum updated.
The debate is silly for the most part, when the game comes out whoever doesn't like it can change the localisation for Germany from "German Reich" to whatever they like.

 

[rjohansen]

Would it be easy to modify the game to NOT have dynamic names? I feel HOI3 was hard to mod - and I just hope it is way easier. Also, if the game comes shipping with a name like "German Reich" - if you change it to just Germany - would that break Ironman mode?

I hope not. Name changing and graphic changes should not "break" Ironman status. For instance also adding names to every province etc (if someone make a mod for it) - should not break Ironman status, since it is not a cheat.

 

[Ted52]

In EU4, changing France to Baguette didnt break Ironman.

 

[Tuskin38]

Would it be easy to modify the game to NOT have dynamic names? I feel HOI3 was hard to mod - and I just hope it is way easier. Also, if the game comes shipping with a name like "German Reich" - if you change it to just Germany - would that break Ironman mode?

I hope not. Name changing and graphic changes should not "break" Ironman status. For instance also adding names to every province etc (if someone make a mod for it) - should not break Ironman status, since it is not a cheat.

in EU4, changing country names and graphics does not break Ironman in most cases.

So...whoever said early in this thread that the game does not have dynamic country names...was just mistaken? I'm a little confused now

Could have been changed since then.

 

[EmpireMagnis]

Really, this is a hit thread, because people are complaining about inter-language country names.
Really?
Who cares..?

 

[hwoosh]

Could have been changed since then.

This was clarified by Doomdark, and by the poster who originally said that, just above.