German Reich as Democracy?

[kviiri]

The game allows it, but lets be honest here, a national socialistic germany is the driving force of the entire game, it would be kinda dull without.

I already used this joke a few threads ago but...

Hitler... is out of the way.

 

[Lorymat]

I don't say that everything about Staufenberg was good. It just was an example to describe what I mean.

There were other possibilities for sure. But in my eyes as someone who is German and feels German but has in part Jewish ancestors, it feels totally wrong to play my country with the only possibility to be a nazi. E. G. there have been huge groups of members of the kpd and SPD wich were persecuted. Why shouldn't they even have a possibility to try to change the way their country is ruled.

I don't want to be rude, but what does this have to do with anything? I think you're over analyzing the whole thing a bit too much.

I mean, I'm Croatian and you don't see me being offended by the Independent State of Croatia that's in the game. It's representing history as it was back then and giving you the opportunity to change it as you want (something that's been done in every HoI game to date including games like Arsenal of Democracy and Darkest Hour) there's no point in bringing up political commentary and personal world views in video game design that is BASED upon historical accuracy.

 

[Vargur]

There are ways to steer the Reich towards democracy using national foci.

However, don't expect a "Hitler kills himself" button.

Also, people should start reasoning if they are going to disagree like that.

What about a "Hitler sells a painting" button.
It could be one step towards democracy.

 

[Shade205]

You do you, I'll be bringing beautiful German Fascism to the USA by 1946 if all goes well

 

[Mannstien]

Well lets play it out, how would the game be interesting if Germany was Democratic say by 1938 or 39', does Russia invade Poland in 41'-42' after the Winter War. Maybe Japan's war with China draws World Tension up high enough to get something moving and joins the Comintern or makes a Pact with SU?

 

[TartanClad]

Hello I'm German but I don't like the hole stuff of nazism at all. So I wonder if it would be possible to play a democratic German Reich, e. G. If something like the Staufenberg assassination wouldn't have failed and would have happened earlier like in 1937 or 1938.
Is there a kind of way to play like this confirmed or are there plans that this is eventually possible?

I understand that it's entirely possible to become a democratic nation, possibly where the ruling party reinstates the Weimar Republic or a version of the Bonn Republic takes power, but you will have to play NAZI Germany for the first few years.

I do hope, either at release or as part of a DLC that a pre-war shift in German political society will trigger a completely different sequence of events, such as a decent into conflict between the Allies and the Comintern. (For example, a non-Facist Germany will be left with the decision to take sides in a idealogical clash between 'global democracy' and the 'world revolution' as she finds herself geographically caught between France/UK and Russia.) I should probably make a thread about this.

 

[kviiri]

Well lets play it out, how would the game be interesting if Germany was Democratic say by 1938 or 39', does Russia invade Poland in 41'-42' after the Winter War. Maybe Japan's war with China draws World Tension up high enough to get something moving and joins the Comintern or makes a Pact with SU?

That's pretty much the premise of Command and Conquer: Red Alert. Hitler is removed through time-travel, but Stalin keeps being Stalin - without a strong militaristic nation to stop his army in the West, USSR grabs most of Eastern Europe and quickly pushes against Germany as they frantically ally with France and UK to preserve their independence. The resulting war is about as brutal as the real one was.

 

[Nelfe]

I don't want to be rude, but what does this have to do with anything? I think you're over analyzing the whole thing a bit too much.

I mean, I'm Croatian and you don't see me being offended by the Independent State of Croatia that's in the game. It's representing history as it was back then and giving you the opportunity to change it as you want (something that's been done in every HoI game to date including games like Arsenal of Democracy and Darkest Hour) there's no point in bringing up political commentary and personal world views in video game design that is BASED upon historical accuracy.

Yes, of course. After all it's only a game. My grandfather (I'm french) fought in the 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne and I've no problem with playing nazi Germany or a fascist France.

 

[teamgene]

Just because Germany is a democracy doesn't mean they wouldn't try to get Danzig from Poland. In the 30's the western world was more concerned with Soviets and Italy until Germany's land grabs.

 

[AradoX]

On a similar note, I'd like to suggest this HOI3 AAR:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ks-spirit-a-pragmatic-german-campaign.727531/

Here Germany tries a diplomatic route, something I'd like to try in HOI4 - maybe by going Democratic.

 

[Kazansky22]

I think doing a democratic Germany would be great for replay-abilities sake.

I can't wait until I can do some multiplayer with my buddies and make a Fascist Soviet Union, Then I think the Allies would have a serious problem. Germany/Italy/Japan/Soviets all working together, they would have the most powerful land armies by far, and their combined naval output would be pretty crazy.

 

[TheOrangeGuy]

I think something like that was quickly visible in the latest WWW. I'll try to look it up.

EDIT: Found it: the Soviet focus tree decision "Alliance with the USSR" will let Germany and USSR form the "Berlin-Moscow faction" and disband Axis. See it in the video below:

RE-EDIT: damnations, the video losed my timestamp. It's at 9:25.

It's a "feature" in the new forums, I've seen a lot complain about it at XenForo

 

[The_Meme_Man]

If you want to play as Democratic Germany, that will be your game. I honestly would not imagine a political change as a superpower to be easy, but seeing what Paradox is doing with the civil war mechanics and internal politics, I could see it being fun.

Imagine the "democratic revolution" devolving into something as bloody as the Chinese civil war.

Actually, this makes me think of amazing scenarios. The German civil war might actually SPARK WWII as factions take side. Britain siding with the German democrats, the German fascists relying on their own devices (naturally still having access to most of Germany's resources), the USSR trying to instigate communist rebellion (or outright invade), so many distractions to allow Japan to expand in Asia with only the US to intervene, possibly an opportunity for the US to perform their anti-imperialist death-crusade on Britain and France with their War Plan Red. I mean, the Spanish Civil War was relatively big (it's European, it immediately makes it more important than the Chinese civil war), a German civil war is going to shake the world, as would any civil war in the other majors, save Japan and Italy and POSSIBLY the US (I'd still see powers taking sides in a second American Civil War).

 

[Surimi]

I kind of hope the red alert scenario would be a meaningful possibility in that situation. If I'm remembering right from the dev diaries, communist nations are allowed a more generous pace of military buildup compared to democracies, so to my completely uneducated perspective it seems that having world tension stay low would disproportionately benefit the soviet union.

I imagine a fully industrialized and mobilized soviet union, without the infrastructural damage and population losses incurred during Barbarossa, could be pretty good match for the allies in Western Europe. I hope the AI is aggressive enough to capitalize on it.

 

[The_Meme_Man]

I kind of hope the red alert scenario would be a meaningful possibility in that situation. If I'm remembering right from the dev diaries, communist nations are allowed a more generous pace of military buildup compared to democracies, so to my completely uneducated perspective it seems that having world tension stay low would disproportionately benefit the soviet union.

I imagine a fully industrialized and mobilized soviet union, without the infrastructural damage and population losses incurred during Barbarossa, could be pretty good match for the allies in Western Europe. I hope the AI is aggressive enough to capitalize on it.

"Capitalize" against the "Capitalists"?

 

[joe9594]

I imagine a fully industrialized and mobilized soviet union, without the infrastructural damage and population losses incurred during Barbarossa, could be pretty good match for the allies in Western Europe. I hope the AI is aggressive enough to capitalize on it.

Yeah. If the AI is willing to act the soviets can probably get a lot done within world tension. The devs mentioned that aggressive action by communists raises WT less than actions by fascists.

 

[Sn3ipen]

My 'Democratic' Germany will still be very Prussian, Nationalist, and expansionist

Democracies can't declare wars whenever they want. They can't use most of their industry to produce glorious tanks instead of consumer goods.

 

[Randomblaofdoom]

Democracies can't declare wars whenever they want. They can't use most of their industry to produce glorious tanks instead of consumer goods.

Democracies still can go to war by decision (e.g., Danzig of War) and consumer goods are produced by civilian factories, which are seperate from the tank-building military factories - though admittedly I do believe military buildup does have some counterpush in democracies, from what I have seen so far.

 

[joe9594]

Democracies still can go to war by decision (e.g., Danzig of War) and consumer goods are produced by civilian factories, which are seperate from the tank-building military factories - though admittedly I do believe military buildup does have some counterpush in democracies, from what I have seen so far.

I thought democracies could also fabricate claims but they could not declare war on other democracies and taking territory for themselves in peace negotiations would be more expensive.

 

[Sn3ipen]

Democracies still can go to war by decision (e.g., Danzig of War) and consumer goods are produced by civilian factories, which are seperate from the tank-building military factories - though admittedly I do believe military buildup does have some counterpush in democracies, from what I have seen so far.

From what i have seen so far the US, just to take an example, starts with a very strong consumer goods capacity. But lacks military focused productions and they can't convert their consumer goods factories before the world tension raises or they are at war. Democratic nations need a "reason" to start re-militarization.

So in the game a democratic Germany would be a weaker Germany. But it could be fun to try, no doubt about that.

As for OP. You could play as the US or UK and try to save Germany from the evils of fascism or even communism if the Soviets start to push back.