German Pacifism

[KaiserNoncehelmIII]

With the new world tension mechanics, if you do not re-militarize the Rhineland, go into Spain, annex Austria and Czechoslovakia or claim Memel and the Polish corridor, will there be peace? This isn't something I plan on doing but just wondering how the diplomatic system works.

 

[phantomrider]

With the new world tension mechanics, if you do not re-militarize the Rhineland, go into Spain, annex Austria and Czechoslovakia or claim Memel and the Polish corridor, will there be peace? This isn't something I plan on doing but just wondering how the diplomatic system works.

One would hope not. This is supposed to be a WWII game. If Germany is not a driver to war then the other candidates are 1) Japan -- who actually started WWI 2 years before Germany in China and 2) the Soviet Union who really did want to expand into the territory formerly controlled by Tsarist Russia plus more and 3) Italy who wanted a 2nd (or 3rd or 4th Roman empire -- do the Byzantines and other holy Roman emperors count?) What the politics and the alliances would be with Germany (arguably the potentially most powerful single nation at the start of the game) trying to avoid war is probably a topic of long discussion and quite interesting. With the player as Germany or multiplayer I have no problem with this scenario but if I chose to play someone other than Germany in single player I don't want this to happen. (or to happen only in a mod where I know it will happen).

 

[Caesar15]

Its hard to say since the Soviet Union could have her own aspirations and potentially declare war on Germany or at least other countries on its borders.

 

[Axe99]

Don't forget Japan's likely to be feisty as well. I think the probability of a single player game happening where all three of the Axis majors, and the USSR, all decided to stay peaceful, would be so small as to be effectively zero (or it may be engineered to be zero). A multiplayer game could be different (ie, technically it's far more possible), but I'd be more than a little surprised if that every happened (in that while it's technically more possible, I'd also think it's either as or less likey) .

 

[blue_yonder]

With the new world tension mechanics, if you do not re-militarize the Rhineland, go into Spain, annex Austria and Czechoslovakia or claim Memel and the Polish corridor, will there be peace?

One would hope so. This is supposed to be a game about WW2, so if the two engines of that war, Ger and Jap, are played by pacifist humans in MP, then although minor land-grabs might break out here and there, a worldwide conflict shouldn't happen. In the obverse of that scenario - a hands-off game in historical mode - everything should unfold as it did IRL, an incredibly complex challenge to accomplish considering the number of variables involved. In other words, unless the AI behaves rationally at each end of the spectrum it will be irrational in both; it is unreasonable to expect it to make war for war's sake if the player(s) are doing all they can to avoid it.

 

[semaphore]

With the new world tension mechanics, if you do not re-militarize the Rhineland, go into Spain, annex Austria and Czechoslovakia or claim Memel and the Polish corridor, will there be peace? This isn't something I plan on doing but just wondering how the diplomatic system works.

Traditionally, in the HoI series, if you don't remilitarise the Rhineland, you don't get the events/decisions for Annex/Czechslovakia/Memel/Danzig at all. But eventually the Allies would have increased your threat enough (diplomatically) to attack you anyway. I know they want to set up a war because this is a war game, but frankly the Allies shouldn't event want to attack a peaceful Germany. With the world tension system hopefully this won't happen in HoI4.

I'm also hoping that this time, if Germany stays peaceful, then the Soviets would take the lead into war instead.

 

[Kapitalisti]

If Germany goes pacifist I'm hoping we get a Red Alert scenario with the Soviets rolling into Europe.

 

[KaiserNoncehelmIII]

If the soviets are very aggressive and raise world tension, is there a chance that Europe could rally behind Germany to fight the communists? This could be very fun playing as russia

 

[Denkt]

The major powers have national focuses that will let them attack you. You probably should change into a democracy if you wan't a pacifism game because the democracies are not peaceful against followers of other ideologies.

 

[Norse Emperor]

Why would that prevent Britain from declaring war on Germany? They would just have to find another reason. Or the USSR would become the aggressor.

 

[Denkt]

Democracies have better relations with democracies and democracies can not fabricate claims on each other.

 

[MajorHeartfire]

Anything is possible in MP

But in SP, I would hope it was flexible enough to allow for alternative scenarios. I personally prefer the ahistorical AARs more than the historical ones.

 

[krieger11b]

If Germany never goes to war I don't see much of a future for Japan. Declaring war on the UK, or France will end them up with a war with both of them. Without Germany defeating France and tying up so much of the British military it would go poorly for Japan in the long run. It would be a cold day in hell before the UK gave India to them. Their best bet would be a quick defeat of all nearby military threat from the UK/France and hope to get a favorable peace, however that was the plan with the US and we all know how well that went.

I don't know how long Japan would be at war with China before something like another oil embargo got them in a serious political problem of lose face or go to war. It was Japan taking over French Indochina that was the final straw, which without Germany would have happened. However I think it was an inevitability and Indochina was maybe just the final excuse they needed to try and curb Japanese aggression.

 

[BBBD316]

Well I do plan on a slightly less aggressive Germany, going down the ally Poland path. I will bring the Japanese in and lend lease to them so that they can win in China and then we will wait till the bear strikes us and glory will be on our side!

Then perhaps then I will take on the weak West.

Also it would be interesting to see what the US does, eventually a NF will be for a war plan and if Germany is quite and Japan stops at China?? Does the WW become the US v USSR?

 

[ringhloth]

There definitely won't be peace. All of the majors have focuses to declare war on someone, and eventually the AI will stumble into those.

 

[Norse Emperor]

Democracies have better relations with democracies and democracies can not fabricate claims on each other.

I was responding to the OP. Germany would still not have been a "democracy" in that case so Britain would still want to wipe them out.

 

[griffor]

i think that germany could take some land but if they leverage world tension correctly maybe they could get the allies to declare on soviets and sit back and watch it unfold

 

[TheRomanRuler]

When i read title i immediately tough about modern day Germany.

 

[Kovax]

As long as it's not like earlier versions of HOI3, where the UK would automatically declare war on Germany in January of '40 if Germany hadn't done anything to start a war on its own, the diplomatic system has to be an improvement.

It should be set up so that war is in Germany's best interests, because the ongoing trade restrictions are leading to economic stagnation, and the rapid military expansion for war is something that can't be sustained in the long run without looting another country's treasury and/or resource stockpile (which is really difficult now that both currency and resource stockpiles have been removed). If Germany can continue to build up at an unrealistic rate, then it doesn't place the historical limits on Germany. If Germany can't make an early surge in rearming for war, then it doesn't make for a very interesting game when Germany gets crushed quickly without much of a struggle. The new mechanics using national focuses seem like an odd way of balancing things.