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Historian in Training
Nov 30, 2001
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I need some help on the general structure of German aristocracy, particularly northern germany- read Brandenburg. Titles would be very helpful. If there was any sort of a heirarchy it would be helpful. Actually anything would be nice.
 

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The Junkers were the landed gentry of Brandenburg-Prussia. The Hohenzollerns were an exception, as they were in charge of roads in their local area, and got their family name from the high taxes they charged persons who used the roads.

The Junkers were an idle class, who basically used revenues from the cities, and later the emerging Bourgeousie to support their life of leisure.
 

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Apr 27, 2001
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Originally posted by Ecthelion
And I wantto know when Brandenburg's boss turned from a Markgraf into a Kurfürst...

Perhaps in 1356, in the Golden Bull of Emperor Charles IV, who fixed the number of Imperial Electors at seven, and awarded one of the Electorates to the Markgraf of Brandeburg, making him an Electoral Prince, or Kurfurst.
 

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Uncle Sam's Bitch Boy
Apr 18, 2002
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Brandenburg Nobility

The interesting thing about the titles is that they are not
mutually exclusive.

Markgraf = Margrave = Count 'of the Mark', ie Mark Brandenburg
Kurfuerst = Elector, ie one who votes in the crown of the HRE
Fuerst = 'Prince', just like Kniaz in Russian.

In theory, King Frederick I of Prussia (King in Prussia), was
also Elector Frederick III of Brandenburg.

King George I of England was also the Elector of Hannover,
in the same fashion.

There is not the same rigidity of noble titles in German lands
as there was in France and England, as one could be a 'Graf',
or a count, or be a 'Markgraf' and the rank would be the same.
The extra terms are more descriptive than hierarchical in many
cases.

Hope that this wasn't too confusing...
 

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Here are the German noble/royal/imperial titles by rank/precedence:

Emperor (Kaiser)
King (Konig)
Co-king (Mitkonig)

Archduke (Erzherzog)
Grand Duke (Grossherzog)
Duke (Herzog)

Count Palatine (Pfalzgraf)
Margrave (Markgraf)
Landgrave (Landgraf)

Count (Graf)
Lord (Herr)
Knight (Ritter)

Emperor is Imperial, Kings are Royal, others are noble. The most important feature of German nobility is that of the Princes. The Co-king is the royal "Prince" (Prinz) as we English-speakers know it, the nominated & elected successor to the current King.

However, in Germany there was also the concept of the "noble" Prince, or Furst ("First" among equals, Prima inter pares, or "First" Head of a Princely House). ALL NOBLES WHO HOLD THEIR FIEFS DIRECTLY FROM THE KING are Imperial Princes (Reichsfursten), which generally covers all Archdukes, Grand Dukes, Dukes, Count Palatines, Margraves, & Landgraves, who are the High Nobility (Hochadel). Counts, Lords, and Knights are Low Nobility (Niederadel).

In addition, those Imperial Princes who have the right to vote in royal elections are also Electoral Princes (Kurfursten), or "Electors", the highest of the Princely Nobility. This leaves our simplified list at:

Emperor
King & Co-king
Electoral Princes (Electors)
Imperial Princes (Dukes & Higher Counts)
Lower Nobility (Counts, Lords, Knights)

Specifics on each title will follow in another reply...
 

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Emperor (Kaiser): Highest secular ruler, can have Kings as vassals. Theoretically a universal monarch, ie, superior to all others. The Emperor had to first be elected & crowned King; then he could be crowned Emperor by the Pope. Maximilian I began the tradition that once crowned, he was both King & Emperor without deference to the Pope.

King (Konig): Sovereign ruler of a "nation". He had to be elected on East Frankish soil, ie, within the Duchy of Franconia (in EU2 Palatinate, Mainz, Hesse, Wurzburg) and traditonally at Frankfurt, the ancient capital of Franconia. He then had the right to be crowned King at the German capital of Aachen, usually by the Archbishop of Cologne. He could thereafter nominate a successor and have him elected & crowned Co-King (Mitkonig), a sort of German "Crown Prince" (Kronprinz), to ensure a smooth succession within the dynasty. There could also be an Anti-king (Gegenkonig) elected and/or crowned in opposition to the current King.

Duke (Herzog): Originally leader of 1 of the 4 German tribes (Franconians, Swabians, Saxons, Bavarians) and traditionally the highest of the nobility who could only be feudally subject to the King. Dukes are therefore by default Imperial Princes. They usually held their land in return for military service with the Imperial Army. The rank of Archduke was created to denote a Duke who had grown more powerful or ruled over multiple Duchies, such as the Archdukes of Austria. Grand Duke was largely honorific, ie, Grand Dukes outranked but were not necessarily more powerful than a Duke.

Count Palatine (Pfalzgraf): "Count of the Palace", a royal officer who represents the King in the region, holding the royal palaces & administering surrounding lands, presiding over the Court in his absence, and leading the local contingent in the field. There were originally 4, 1 for each of the German tribes, but by EU2 era there was only 1, the Count Palatine of the Rhine, who had always been the most powerful of their number.

Margrave (Markgraf): "Count of the March", a military "governor" who guarded a frontier area of the kingdom. He was to colonize it with Germans, convert the heathen or foreign population by force, develop the land and resources, and found towns. Since the borders were frequently contested, the Margrave only had to serve the Imperial Army in adjacent provinces. Brandenburg originated as the Saxon Nordmark against the heathen Slavs between the Elbe and Oder as well as the Poles (936). Austria was originally the Bavarian Ostmark against the southern Slavs and the Hungarians (976).

Landgrave (Landgraf): "Count of the Land", a Count who held multiple counties or more specifically all the counties in their region. Created for the Landgravate of Hesse-Thuringia (1130), which later split into the two most important German Landgravates, Hesse and Thuringia. The others were of little consequence and were generally not considered Imperial Princes.

Since Counts, Lords, and Knights were generally the same as their other European counterparts, I wont comment on them.
 
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Uncle Sam's Bitch Boy
Apr 18, 2002
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Freiherr

Yes,

A Freiherr was above a Ritter and below a Baron,
but when translated into English, a Freiherr becomes
a baron.

Remember, the Red Baron was Freiherr von Richthofen.

Also like US Navy rank of Rear Admiral, with an upper
half and a lower half -

So - Freiherr - Baron, lower half
Baron - Baron, upper half

Clear as mud?
 

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Aug 9, 2000
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Re: Freiherr

Originally posted by AnchorClanker
Yes,

A Freiherr was above a Ritter and below a Baron,
but when translated into English, a Freiherr becomes
a baron.

Remember, the Red Baron was Freiherr von Richthofen.

Also like US Navy rank of Rear Admiral, with an upper
half and a lower half -

So - Freiherr - Baron, lower half
Baron - Baron, upper half

Clear as mud?
So Baron would be the correct english translation of Freiherr, even when it is below the German title Baron wich (ofcourse) also translates to english as Baron?

To make it harder for me in Swedish Baron is just the dayli use title of the a Friherre ("Fri" in Swedish is "Frei" in german)
 

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Posted by Brycon316
The Hohenzollerns were an exception, as they were in charge of roads in their local area, and got their family name from the high taxes they charged persons who used the roads.
As far as I know, the family likely took its name from its original seat, the Swabian castle Zolre. The castle's name in turn probably derives from the word "Zoeller" (castle, watchtower). The version "Hohenzollern" is of later date, regarding both the castle and the family (from what I understand, the family was known as "Zollern" until the early seventeenth century - interestingly enough, the new version of the name seems to have originated in the Swabian line of the family, not in the Franconian/Brandenburg line).
 

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That theory must have come from a literal translation of Hohenzollern (High Tolls). But Melanchthon's right, they were named after their ancestral castle, which was common practice in the Middle Ages.

It was common in Swabia, homeland of the Hohenzollerns, to tack "Hohen" on to the name of the mountain/hill/rock/river/other geographical feature on which the castle sat. For example, the hill Staufen was topped by the castle Hohenstaufen, "High Staufen", and then there's Hohenbaden, Hohenberg, Hohenburg, Hohentwiel, Hohenlohe, etc., as if the castle was the mountain's peak so to speak. In most cases, the names were interchangeable, like Staufen-Hohenstaufen, or in this case Zollern-Hohenzollern. Regardless, both forms refer to the family and to the castle from which they hailed.