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seattle

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I am aware that:
1. everything works against the a.i.
2. in MP everything depends on how attentive the opponent is

With that out of the way, here's the idea which I haven't tested yet:
- Build MIC only for the first two years or so
- tech rush light tanks
- get army xp via exercise and volunteers in Spain
- build a ton of light tanks with lvl 5 engines
- mobile warfare doctrine, right, right
- ministers that boost speed
- build lots of fighters and CAS

Since light tanks only cost metal which Germany has an abundance of, you shouldn't need too many CIC for trade.

Now the tank template could either be:
- all out light tanks for maximum speed with the downside of low org
- light tank + mot (in which case the light tank would get as much armour as possible until it matches truck speed)

Typically you fight the 1939/40 campaigns mostly with infantry and light tanks and only need medium tanks in 1941 for Barbarossa.

So it's necessary to start WW2 in early 1939 and take everything from France to Poland in that year.
Launching Barbarossa with some 15,000 to 20,000 light tanks (wild guess) in spring of 1940, with tanks that might reach speeds of 16 kmh.

It's vital of course to defeat the Soviets in 1940 or at least cripple them enough.

After a successful Barbarossa it doesn't matter if your tanks are outdated anyways.

I'm hoping for the fighter/CAS combo to be the wrecking ball for my light tanks.

What do you think about the idea? And rather max speed low org light tank-only or mixed with trucks?
 
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PurpulaPhoenixum53

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Just thinking about it. I don't think it would work simply because their armor isn't going to be strong enough to hold up against later units. That being said, the fact that they are cheap could mean that they could easily be produced en masse allowing for a much large Blitz front. Overall, it might work, but Light tanks suck at the breakthrough against entrenched units, meaning you would constantly have to keep the Allies from entrenching. If you can do that it might work.
 

seattle

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Just thinking about it. I don't think it would work simply because their armor isn't going to be strong enough to hold up against later units. That being said, the fact that they are cheap could mean that they could easily be produced en masse allowing for a much large Blitz front. Overall, it might work, but Light tanks suck at the breakthrough against entrenched units, meaning you would constantly have to keep the Allies from entrenching. If you can do that it might work.
Okay, but you do fight Poland and France without massive numbers of medium tanks, right?
So there is a time in the early war where you are utilizing light tanks, probably not even tech rushed because who invests in light tanks?

My light tanks would be 1-2 years ahead of time and invested max army xp.

Why wouldn't massive numbers of a higher quality light tank be adequate in 1940?
 

SophieX

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Speed always works against AI. I suggest to mix tank with mot; in my experience ORG is a value which should never be underestimated and consider to put light-SPArt into the divisons.
 
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seattle

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Speed always works against AI. I suggest to mix tank with mot; in my experience ORG is a value which should never be underestimated and consider to put light-SPArt into the divisons.
Hmm, that might be useful. Would need way more army XP on top to get the best out of both.

Since it's a MIC only build, production-wise it shouldn't be a problem to field enough of both.
 

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Since light tanks only cost metal which Germany has an abundance of, you shouldn't need too many CIC for trade.
Got oil?

50/50 INF and ARM/MOT. Use INF to fix the enemy the ARM/MOT to encircle.
 

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In sp it would work, at least on this patch. Add in a few Wespe SPA for added SA and it would be trivial.

In MP it would only work against a tyro. The new espionage rules allow you a low cost way to watch what your opponents are doing. And guess who any halfway decent Russian player is watching? The counter to your plan is easy and cheap, AT guns. Far cheaper than you expenditure on light tanks.
 

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With the sheer number of tanks you are talking about, it could very well work.

Attacking in so many different places, you are bound to find several areas that break. Run, into enemy medium tanks, or to many AT guns, just attack somewhere else. The Russians cannot be strong against armor everywhere and with 15,000 to 20,000 light tanks, you should be able to find several soft spots. Once you break in, you will be moving so fast, you could roll up the Russian units that are strategically moving up to intercept you, while their org is low. An overrun is very likely in that event.

You may need some SP-ART like the poster said above, to burn through the entrenched infantry.

You may want to research the first mech technology to get the 100% hardness bonus for your motorized troops.

Would it be worth the speed boost it to get RECON or is that going to hurt your org to much? A 10% speed boost on a super fast tank might equal a substantial increase making overruns more frequent.
 
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seattle

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Speed always works against AI. I suggest to mix tank with mot; in my experience ORG is a value which should never be underestimated and consider to put light-SPArt into the divisons.
Hmm, that might be useful. Would need way more army XP on top to get the best out of both.

Since it's a MIC only build, production-wise it shouldn't be a problem to
With the sheer number of tanks you are talking about, it could very well work.

Attacking in so many different places, you are bound to find several areas that break. Run, into enemy medium tanks, or to many AT guns, just attack somewhere else. The Russians cannot be strong against armor everywhere and with 15,000 to 20,000 light tanks, you should be able to find several soft spots. Once you break in, you will be moving so fast, you could roll up the Russian units that are strategically moving up to intercept you, while their org is low. An overrun is very likely in that event.

You may need some SP-ART like the poster said above, to burn through the entrenched infantry.

You may want to research the first mech technology to get the 100% hardness bonus for your motorized troops.

Would it be worth the speed boost it to get RECON or is that going to hurt your org to much? A 10% speed boost on a super fast tank might equal a substantial increase making overruns more frequent.
Always recon on tanks, particularly the fastest kind.

If mixed with mot, then of course the +100% hardness tech on mot.

#breakthrough
In my experience, any line can be broken by prolonged infantry battles if you have enough airpower.
Even red battles turn green if your bombers have enough time.
So even if the light tanks can't achieve a breakthrough, other divisions can step up.

#oil
In vanilla, Germany has plenty access to oil. In mods like Total War, BICE, Hearts of Oak etc. oil is always a problem for Germany.

#AT and MP
I figure that could become a serious problem. The Soviet player won't expect a 1941 campaign when Germany overruns Poland in early 1939.
However, surprise is still possible: what if instead of going west, Germany keeps Eastern Poland and directly dows Russia in May/June of 1939? That might surprise the Soviet player.
 
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SophieX

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So even if the light tanks can't achieve a breakthrough, other divisions can step up.
I suggest, NOT to use those troops, which "achieved" the breakthrough for using that "frontline hole". Once a breakthrough is done, it is the hour of your "tank-reserve". Push through the hole with your fresh tank-army which was at "stand by" one or two tiles behind the front. And then perform a "real" encirclement, not a small "pocketing" of 6 or 10 divisions ;)
 
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seattle

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I suggest, NOT to use those troops, which "achieved" the breakthrough for using that "frontline hole". Once a breakthrough is done, it is the hour of your "tank-reserve". Push through the hole with your fresh tank-army which was at "stand by" one or two tiles behind the front. And then perform a "real" encirclement, not a small "pocketing" of 6 or 10 divisions ;)
Pockets of 50+ divs are of course essential. However, don't forget the power of overrunning fleeing enemies in addition to that.
 
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Petite

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i do something like that

Pz-II from start, to have ~ 8 Div for China and go with level 6 Manstein to Danzig

but i use Tak and no cas, because range wins
 
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seattle

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i do something like that

Pz-II from start, to have ~ 8 Div for China and go with level 6 Manstein to Danzig

but i use Tak and no cas, because range wins
Tac as Germany? Which air doctrine? Battlefield support boosts CAS more.
I assume that you pick the right doctrine (tac strat bombing something something).

Love the China idea. I would boost reliability on the light tanks though. I can't imagine the attrition losses otherwise.
 

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- all out light tanks for maximum speed with the downside of low org
- light tank + mot (in which case the light tank would get as much armour as possible until it matches truck speed)
I have seen players use a combination of the two. A few pure LARM formations to perform overruns, while LARM/MOT formations create the breakthroughs.

The key with a LARM approach is to focus on those overruns more than actual encirclements. Yeah, you get some encirclements, but that's not the focus. A single pure LARM division can stack wipe 100 Soviet divisions if they are all in retreat and it reaches the enemy province before they do.

Important safety tip:

- build lots of fighters and CAS
The air superiority portion of the air war will be crucial. Again, yes, you want the firepower from CAS, but paralyzing the Red Army with total air supremacy will make it that much easier to get those overruns. This strategy is one that favors more fighters than CAS, I feel.
 
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I have seen players use a combination of the two. A few pure LARM formations to perform overruns, while LARM/MOT formations create the breakthroughs.

The key with a LARM approach is to focus on those overruns more than actual encirclements. Yeah, you get some encirclements, but that's not the focus. A single pure LARM division can stack wipe 100 Soviet divisions if they are all in retreat and it reaches the enemy province before they do.

Important safety tip:



The air superiority portion of the air war will be crucial. Again, yes, you want the firepower from CAS, but paralyzing the Red Army with total air supremacy will make it that much easier to get those overruns. This strategy is one that favors more fighters than CAS, I feel.
I tend to be lazy and embed wings in my armies. It doesn't work in Poland at all, but with the bigger air regions in Russia it might get satisfying results.

I reckon you control wings manually?
 

Hoi Neuling

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Yea, I try that too. But you got more Infantry at the Start of the Game. So many Tanks and mot. Inf you can´t build about the cool new Feature Fuel. Later after you got the Oil Fields from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania as your Vassall-States you can build more Tanks. Airforce is normaly big enough with normal Strategic Bombers and light Fighters if you split them in 40 and 30 Groups.

Stukas are with 6 to 8 in 40 Groups and Seaplanes with the same Numbers are normaly enough. 5 or 6 Groups of heavy fighters with 20 Planes too.

What you realy need are Recon-Planes, Spynetworks and Spyinformations with the Bonuses from your Agency. Then you get a real light Tank Blitz for Germany.
 

Petite

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~ 160 tacs for Italy
~ 200 in spain/3 zones
~ 200 Japan
~ 200 Manchuko here you have 0 chance with cas
~ sometimes 200 for Mengucko if they become their port
---
totally 600 taks to mid 37 because range wins in china and grow up them ~ 1k

03/38 it looks like that and manstein is level 5





---
39 Danzig 1k taks or more over Poland, later benelux, later france to slow the allies only
and you can use near airports for Me 109.



after that you can hunt ships with tac-range, thats funny

but i cant research any airdoctrine before danzig

---

Oil is not an Problem before Barbarossa, Tungsten is a Problem before you start danzig
 
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Secret Master

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I reckon you control wings manually?
You reckon correctly. :)

I consider the air war too important to leave in the hands of wings attached to divisions.
 
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Petite

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ive never use Ai tools for tanks and planes
 

seattle

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You reckon correctly. :)

I consider the air war too important to leave in the hands of wings attached to divisions.
I vaguely remember you being a connoisseur of strategic bombing grandeur. :D
I've just started the light tank run in ironman-compatible mode. Vanilla seems so empty, but I wanted to get comparative results.