German Infantry Experiment (2.03c)

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Hi guys. Would you like me to use the same army composition (4inf vs 2inf+2art) or change it to 5inf vs 2inf+3art? What you have to take into consideration is this experiment . It shows that the larger divisions are stronger than smaller even then the same number of brigades is involved in a battle. That would give to the Infantry Army even larger edge of being “tough”.

 

[loki100]

It would be interesting, I wonder if the result of the 2+3 model in a more sustained campaign will be the illusion of early sucess followed by severe weaknesses? But I've certainly never tried 5 combat brigades (to tell the truth I only rarely grab the tech for 5 brigades) so that'd be useful to see in practice.

 

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Barbarossa Campaign

Infantry Army

The pure infantry army: 480 infantry brigades (1600 MP).

There are three army groups consisting of 96 divisions (5 infantry brigades each). There are 35 HQs.

Mixed Infantry Army

The mixed infantry army: 300 infantry and 450 artillery brigades (1600 MP).

There are three army groups consisting of 150 divisions (2 infantry and 3 artillery brigades each). There are 52 HQs.

 

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The First Four Weeks

Infantry Army

Mixed Infantry Army

The Mixed Infantry Army reached Minsk and Riga a little bit faster.

 

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The Second Four Weeks

Infantry Army

Mixed Infantry Army

The Mixed Infantry Army besieged Kyiv and Tallinn, and reached Pskov, Smolensk and Homyel. However, the Infantry Army reached only Kyiv, Smolensk and Homyel.

 

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The Third Four Weeks

Infantry Army

Mixed Infantry Army

The Mixed Infantry Army took Leningrad and besieged Odessa. The Infantry Army reached only reached Leningrad and is still besieging Homyel.

 

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The Fourth Four Weeks

Infantry Army

Mixed Infantry Army

The Mixed Infantry Army reached Finish border and approached Moscow and Dnipropetrovsk. The Infantry Army is still besieging Odessa and approached Moscow and Orel.

 

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The Fifth Four Weeks

Infantry Army

On 26 October 1941, Moscow was taken.

Mixed Infantry Army

On 27 October 1941, the first Battle of Moscow was lost. The loss was attributed to the lack of supplies.

Nevertheless the Mixed Infantry Army reached took Vologda, Jaroslavl and reached Tula, Orel, Kursk, Kharkov and Stalino. The Infantry Army took Moscow, Tula and Jaroslavl and is besieging Orel and Kursk but still struggling to reach Dnipropetrovsk.

 

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The Sixth Four Weeks

Infantry Army

Mixed Infantry Army

On 13 November 1941, the second Battle of Moscow was won.

The Mixed Infantry Army at last took Moscow. It also took Petrozavotsk, Tula, Orel, Kursk, Kharkov and Stalino and approaching Rjazan. The Infantry Army also took Petrozavodsk, Rjazan, Orel and Kursk but still struggling to take Dnipropetrovsk and Kharkov.

 

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The Seventh Four Weeks

Infantry Army

Mixed Infantry Army

The Mixed Infantry Army took Rjazan and Rostov na Donu and Arhangelsk. The Infantry Army took Dnipropetrovsk and approached Voronez. The Barbarrosa Campaign has ended on 4 January 1941.

The red dotted line in the second picture shows the Infantry Army front line on 4 January 1941.

 

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Supply

Infantry Army

Mixed Infantry Army

The supply maps show that the Mixed Infantry Army suffers supply problems in the south centre and south. The Infantry Army has no supply problems and therefore almost reached Voronez. However where the Mixed Infantry Army had no supply problems (north) and not acute supply problems (south) it was able to push further.

 

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This is a reference map.

 

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These are Manpower weekly data:

The Infantry Army

Date 	        Week	MP	Reinf	Off%	Gain	Exp MP	MP Loss
22/06/2010	1	747	6.4	140%	37.7		
29/06/2010	2	742	10.2	140%	38.1		17
06/07/2010	3	733	14.1	140%	38.8		22
13/07/2010	4	711	32.1	140%	39.0		49
20/07/2010	5	683	23.8	140%	39.8		29
27/07/2010	6	672	13.6	140%	40.7		10
03/08/2010	7	660	13.4	140%	41.3		21
10/08/2010	8	652	10.6	139%	41.5		15
17/08/2010	9	636	20.8	139%	42.1		36
24/08/2010	10	628	14.5	139%	42.9		11
31/08/2010	11	620	13.1	139%	44.4		16
07/09/2010	12	610	16.0	139%	44.4		23
14/09/2010	13	595	15.4	139%	45.5		25
21/09/2010	14	584	9.8	139%	47.3		16
28/09/2010	15	578	10.0	139%	47.9		17
05/10/2010	16	573	5.5	139%	47.8		12
12/10/2010	17	568	16.8	139%	48.0		27
19/10/2010	18	559	10.7	138%	48.5		14
26/10/2010	19	548	11.2	138%	48.7		23
02/11/2010	20	539	9.4	138%	51.7		18
09/11/2010	21	536	6.7	138%	53.4		12
16/11/2010	22	525	23.0	138%	53.6		40
23/11/2010	23	509	8.2	138%	54.5		14
30/11/2010	24	503	12.1	138%	55.0		22
07/12/2010	25	497	4.7	138%	55.5		11
14/12/2010	26	496	7.3	138%	55.5		16
21/12/2010	27	493	7.4	138%	56.2		16
28/12/2010	28	486	8.7	138%	56.4		21
04/01/2011	29	483	10.5	138%	57.1		18

Total MP Loss 571
MP loss/d 2.9


The Mixed Infantry Army

Date 	        Week	MP	Reinf	Off%	Gain	Exp MP	MP Loss
22/06/2010	1	746	37.5	140%	37.7		
29/06/2010	2	735	36.7	140%	37.7		19
06/07/2010	3	720	34.7	140%	38.9		22
13/07/2010	4	711	25.4	140%	39.1		9
20/07/2010	5	697	34.8	139%	39.6		32
27/07/2010	6	680	17.6	139%	40.9		9
03/08/2010	7	654	25.7	139%	40.9		44
10/08/2010	8	637	18.5	139%	42.7		19
17/08/2010	9	623	13.3	139%	43.2		19
24/08/2010	10	614	9.3	139%	44.6		15
31/08/2010	11	605	8.6	139%	45.3		19
07/09/2010	12	601	8.4	139%	46.0		14
14/09/2010	13	591	12.0	139%	47.3		24
21/09/2010	14	580	13.2	139%	47.8		23
28/09/2010	15	572	10.8	139%	48.0		17
05/10/2010	16	565	11.0	139%	48.0		18
12/10/2010	17	556	11.9	139%	49.0		21
19/10/2010	18	546	16.5	139%	50.1		26
26/10/2010	19	540	9.6	139%	50.3		11
02/11/2010	20	534	14.9	138%	51.4		23
09/11/2010	21	522	11.2	138%	52.9		20
16/11/2010	22	508	17.2	138%	55.7		32
23/11/2010	23	500	9.9	138%	56.1		14
30/11/2010	24	495	18.4	138%	56.4		26
07/12/2010	25	489	18.3	138%	57.0		19
14/12/2010	26	480	19.2	138%	57.9		23
21/12/2010	27	469	9.4	138%	57.9		15
28/12/2010	28	463	12.8	138%	58.8		23
04/01/2011	29	458	11.1	138%	58.8		17

Total MP Loss 570
MP loss/d 2.9

Reinf - MP needed to reinforce all units
Gain - MP monthly gain
Exp MP - MP deducted (production) or added (cheat)
MP Loss - Weekly MP loss

Both armies suffered same casualties. Interestingly the Mixed Infantry Army suffered much less casualties on the first month but suffered more casualties on the subsequent months.

 

[unmerged(47028)]

It is worth to note that there were collaborative governments in Poland and the USSR territories. If I was using total exploitation there could be supply disaster for the Mixed Infantry Army even before it reached Moscow.

 

[unmerged(35723)]

Interesting. But why would a German player use anything other than collaborative goverment in Poland and USSR?

 

[unmerged(47028)]

Interesting. But why would a German player use anything other than collaborative goverment in Poland and USSR?

Well, there are many players who complain about supply system and it appears a lot of them use full exploitation

 

[Baltasar]

Thanks for the highly interesting experiment. Would you consider scaling down your divisions to 2inf 2 art again and see how they perform with the same ammount of divisions? The AI really does not seem to lack troops, it just lacks supplies. Do you consider airlifted supplies a solution for this? The infantry rush tactic seems to cope quite well with any sort of opposition, which unfortunately makes investing into tanks a waste of resources, because they might deliver a lot of punch but consume way too much supplies for the underdeveloped infrastructure in Soviet Russia.

 

[wuffer]

maybe the results for the mixed army would have been even better without Bohm-E.
As for total exploitation: 'IC building is a waste for Germany, better and cheaper to conquer it'. / ironic off
Would like to see 'em forced to do it, especially in MPs.

BTW, what was the current state of infra in Poland and on which supply tech level the experiment was done?

 

[unmerged(47028)]

maybe the results for the mixed army would have been even better without Bohm-E.
As for total exploitation: 'IC building is a waste for Germany, better and cheaper to conquer it'. / ironic off
Would like to see 'em forced to do it, especially in MPs.

BTW, what was the current state of infra in Poland and on which supply tech level the experiment was done?

Supply Transportation: lvl 4 (next level in 1944)
Supply Organisation: lvl 4 (next level in 1944)

All key roads in Poland were lvl 9.

You are right Bohm-E was not the best AI choice, but both armies had him. Schlomer was lvl 3 Log + Off. Infantry army's Buschenhagen was lvl 3 Log too.

 

[unmerged(47028)]

Thanks for the highly interesting experiment. Would you consider scaling down your divisions to 2inf 2 art again and see how they perform with the same ammount of divisions? The AI really does not seem to lack troops, it just lacks supplies. Do you consider airlifted supplies a solution for this? The infantry rush tactic seems to cope quite well with any sort of opposition, which unfortunately makes investing into tanks a waste of resources, because they might deliver a lot of punch but consume way too much supplies for the underdeveloped infrastructure in Soviet Russia.

I will try to run 2+2.

Interestingly the Infantry Army North Group for some reason didn’t move to Arhangelsk even when divisions were not exhausted, the army had no supply problems and there was weak opposition. I think it was an issue of too little divisions. AI was afraid to be outflanked.