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Karelian

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Faeelin said:
“If the Americans had stayed neutral, we might have yet won.” He smiled fondly. “A German Empire, reformed to give the people a greater voice, astride Europe like a colossus. We could have saved Russia from Communism. We could have propped up the Habsburgs, instead of the patchwork of squabbling despots that replaced them.” His face darkened for a moment. “And if the war hadn’t uprooted Germany’s middle class, ruined the lives and hopes of millions who had not caused the war, maybe we would never had to deal with the Nazis and their ilk.”

"The pity of war..."

Faeelin said:
The soldiers in the war room were silent for a moment, until one of the soldiers maneuvering pieces spoke up. “It is not too late, Herr President. Germany can find its rightful place in the sun.”

Stresemann shook his head. “The last war left Europe broken. With bigger bombs, better poison gas, and stronger artillery, what would be left standing? We can find our way without getting Germans killed.”

It truly seems that Stresemann is following the footsteps of Bismarck - he obviously shares old Otto´s disdain towards too adventurous foreign policy. Good for Europe, allthough I doubt that the new tangled web of alliances will be able to peacefully co-exist forever despite the growing economical links between Germany and the Eastern European states.

Britain has been suprisingly silent politically, what´s their geopolitical view to the current situation of continental Europe?
 

trekaddict

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Well, if ( and thats a bif if ) he manages to get tighter relations with the UK it might yet work. OTOH the French and the Italians might feel surrounded.
 

Faeelin

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Karelian said:
It truly seems that Stresemann is following the footsteps of Bismarck - he obviously shares old Otto´s disdain towards too adventurous foreign policy. Good for Europe, allthough I doubt that the new tangled web of alliances will be able to peacefully co-exist forever despite the growing economical links between Germany and the Eastern European states.

What, you mean Germany and France? Perhaps.

But do you really think that a veteran of the First World War would be made enough to risk starting a second?

Britain has been suprisingly silent politically, what´s their geopolitical view to the current situation of continental Europe?

Brtain has been mostly silent because there's been nothing worth getting invovled in thus far; but a mention of what they're up to will come soon.
 

unmerged(96020)

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Just wanted to come around a give a little knock on the door. This is an amazing piece of alternate history I must say: hopeful, but still realistic. Stresemann didn't become a Mary Sue that he could've been written as, but rather a competent politician who plays convincingly and wins convincingly (and might also lose convincingly once war comes :p ); and his Germany, while light-years better than the historical Nazi regime, is still very nationalistic and flawed by modern or even post-war standards.

But since this a war game, you'll no doubt have to fight the big war at some point -- so far you've set France and Italy as clear future opponents, as well as Poland; will you be creating more? You said you've added extra IC for the French, but I still think it won't be enough against a truly determined Germany; all you have to do is hold the line there and on the Italian border, both short and easily fortified, and storm across any minors to your East that dared join the fascist alliance while putting that magnificent German industry to use*. Even with less military compared to what the Nazis had, it could be done.

*Just how large is it now? Is it smaller or larger compared to real life? The Nazis were certainly more military-oriented, and their MEFO bills-fueled rearmament program was huge, but your Germany did far better economically overall and the less IC available for war purposes could be better simulated as a higher need for consumer goods, which a more open and democratic Germany would require in any case, and of course the good old "Peacetime IC modifier."

I take it whatever Stresemann has planned for Czechoslovakia will decide that country's position in the coming conflict, and who knows about the other Balkan minors?

And of course, there's the USSR, USA, and Britain. None has a big gripe with Germany at this point though.

Oh, and there's Japan. I think it would be very much plausible that the Japanese would join the Franco-Italian Axis if it sees potential gains as German support for the Chinese ought to raise some ire.

And finally,
Faeelin said:
...those pieces were then carefully removed from the map, although a careless officer knocked over a Czech armored battalion
Clever.

They soldiers seemed giddy, like boys playing a game, but in his mind he saw burning villages and columns of refugees.
Very clever. :)

Although you might want to fix the typo; oh, and the [2] reference on the last update is missing in the actual update itself...I think.
 

Anazagar

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Faeelin said:
But do you really think that a veteran of the First World War would be made enough to risk starting a second?

Sometimes a man's got to do what a man's got to do - and Stresemann seems like a man that usually knows what he should do. Besides not all of the strings are in his hands - good ol' uncle Joe will start moving and kicking sooner or later (even if cautiously as he tends to).

Faeelin said:
The other problem is that the Fourth Republic, and the right-wing alliance, came to power on a policy of non-intervention in the Civil War. Whatever La Rocque wants, the rest of France might not agree to.

(The Fourth Republic really needs fiddling with, I think. Hrmm.)

No one talks about direct French intervention - but you know, them volounteers are an unreliable bunch - they just tend to do what they want to. And if they are members of the military? Well no one has to know about that - who believes the communist anyway (besides them usefull idiots) .
 
Last edited:

Faeelin

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clifton:nice aar so you want pre-war 1914 borders, so also alsace-lotharing? Are you gona make poland a satelite state?

Tob: Stresemann would like the borders revised; he'd probably settle for the Free City, extraterritorial roads through the region, although of course he'd like the corridor. The 1914 border simply includes too many Poles to make it ideal. There are solutions to that, of course, but I don't think he'd prefer them. But if war does come, and Germany wins, can he really say no?

Note that there proposals, including some supported by the French, for Germany to take the Corridor while the Poles get Lithuania. How Lithuania felt about this is obvious, but this is the price you pay for being small and not Belgium. Is it possible? The Corridor for Lithuania? Hrmm.

Irenicus: A German-Japanese war would consist of the two of them shouting at each other, due to lack of power projection. Well, unless they meet somewhere in the corpse of the Soviet Union, but you're looking at the wrong AAR for that.And yes, what you propose as an outcome for the war is eminently plausible; and it might shake Britain out of its isolation. That's an absolutely brilliant point on Japan that never occurred to me, although Atlantic Friend also suggested it. Hrmm. I suspect the impetus would be the USSR, not German influence in China.

We'll see.

Thanks for the kind words, everyone.
 
Last edited:

cegorach

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Faeelin said:
Tob: Stresemann would like the borders revised


To make it simple - even German liberals were still revisionists. Much like in modern day Russai returning to 'historical borders' was seen as fair, justified and everything else was ignored.

The tariff war is just one of many examples.


Note that there proposals, including some supported by the French,

They always enjoyed trading someone's elses territories for their own safety.

for Germany to take the Corridor while the Poles get Lithuania. How Lithuania felt about this is obvious, but this is the price you pay for being small and not Belgium. Is it possible? The Corridor for Lithuania? Hrmm.


Poland would never agree to this - the mouth of Vistula was always the throat of Poland.
Its loss ALWAYS lead to war - the Teutonic Order learnt that very well.

Before the war the country invested heavily in the local infrastrucure - the port, the city of Gdynia, fortifications of Hel and the navy.

The popular League of Sea and Colonies had over 1 000 000 members and was very influential.

In addition over 60 % of export went through Pomerelia and local industry was the fastest developing region in the whole of Poland.

Losing the region would lead to a new war. This would be really extreme leading to extreme militarisation and a very hostile neighbour which would always be a massive 35 million thorn to Germany.

Lithuania could easily be conquered by Poland alone if it was deemed sensible, but it was not and local borders were based on the ethnical composition instead. Lithuania lacked infrastructure - there were no modern railways, no useful port facilities to speak of.

In other words it would create something Hungary was to Romania - smaller, less powerful but hostile neighbour waiting for an opportunity to explore and there would be such opportunity sooner or later.



Finally there is the question of the population - only some areas had sizable German population, Kashubians firmly sided with Poland (thanks to Bismarck policy of germanisation) like the Silesians in the south and there was a large population which was born there, found new life there and was determined enough to resist and create a powerful lobby if removed from Gdynia and such.

There were entire native families which became millioners thanks to the city and growing its property prices (if one morning you see your own house worth 1000 times more...) who were another factor in the puzzle.



Gdynia was the pride of the country, Vistula's mouth its throat and the whole region its neck.

Poland would have to be completely destroyed to abandon any plans to take the region back and that is impossible as we know.


Greater Poland - the cradle of Poland with most developed agruculture in the whole country, with developed light industry and very anti-german population which supplied the country with some of the most elite unit for its army was even worse...


If Pomerelia was a poisonous pill, Greater Poland was like
a time bomb swallowed with a dozen of granades and 800 mm artillery shell.


In best situation Poland would become a country totally devoted to reclaiming the region, in worst that + a bunch of terrorist cells ( someone after all detonated those bombs in Berlin during the 2nd WW) of people who were the mind of the team which broke the Enigma and provided excellent inteligence about Germany travelling easily with perfect German and perfectly forged documents (just like two false generals who 'inspected' the Atlantic Wall so often or the agents who penetrated the security in Penemunde leading to the bombardment of the base - among other things).




I can support every word I wrote.
 

unmerged(47288)

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Faeelin said:
Well, why would the Center's domination break down? It's possibly, and arguably started to happen in the 20s, but the Center held their own against the Nazis, up until 1933. They aren't gonna fall before Stresemann.

The Social Democrats come back in a big way in an update that's still rolling around in my head, involving the cartels, Stresemann, and Germany's courts. But I also think people have had enough of reading about the German economy. So we'll see.
Hmmm good point. Especially because it seems that Stresemann's party is very Protestant heavy is there any fights with the Centre of secularisation of German society against Avant Garde culture, Jazz, Abortion etc.?
 

Faeelin

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Irenicus said:
*Just how large is it now? Is it smaller or larger compared to real life? The Nazis were certainly more military-oriented, and their MEFO bills-fueled rearmament program was huge, but your Germany did far better economically overall and the less IC available for war purposes could be better simulated as a higher need for consumer goods, which a more open and democratic Germany would require in any case, and of course the good old "Peacetime IC modifier."

It's got about 167 IC, including Austria; this is probably a bit high, but I'm pumping like 60 IC into consumer goods; and I spent the first two years building nothing but industry.

Too high?

cegorach: Well, I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to say returning to the old borders; really, it was the Corridor that was key. And maybe Silesia.

The following map is from Weimar's Greatest Statesman, a bit of a hagiographical book about Stresemann. But it presents an interesting look at a revised border, though I have no idea how the author developed it. Anybody know?

scan0005sx1.jpg


It's not clear to me why it's necessary for Poland to have a port; Hungary and Czechoslovakia didn't have one, after all. Likewise, while Polish terrorism is a possibility, it is far less likely to be serious in a world where the issue is a lost province, not extermination; and it will also make Poland into a rogue state.

I'm not so sure about the Kahsubians, BTW. If you look at the numbers from the 1920 Plebiscites in East Prussia, it appears that plenty of non-Germans voted to remain part of Germany, most likely ; so it's unclear what the Kashubians would have done. By the 1930s, of course, they would probably vote for Poland, if the subject was put to a plebiscite.

I have never heard about Polish terrorism in Berlin during WW2, so I'm curious and would appreciate info. But, it also seems to me that it's unlikely in this TL, if war should break out.

First, losing the Corridor and having to ship goods through Germany is hardly the same as being exterminated. Second, it would guarantee that Poland is treated as a rogue state within Europe.
 

Milites

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Would the Prussian military aristocracy really just shrug off a loss of Königsberg like that?
 

cegorach

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Faeelin said:
cegorach: Well, I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to say returning to the old borders; really, it was the Corridor that was key. And maybe Silesia.

The following map is from Weimar's Greatest Statesman, a bit of a hagiographical book about Stresemann. But it presents an interesting look at a revised border, though I have no idea how the author developed it. Anybody know?

scan0005sx1.jpg


Odd map. In Greater Poland it is clearly based on the range of the Greater Poland's Uprising (1918-1919).

It's not clear to me why it's necessary for Poland to have a port; Hungary and Czechoslovakia didn't have one, after all.


Because.... it always had one if it was independent or was trying to recover it ?
The whole history of Poland (after the end of feudal partitions) is around this need - to have the port, to keep it and to defend it.

If you look into the whole history of Poland you will quickly see the pattern yourself.

Comparing it to Hungary or Czechoslovakia (what the... :eek: ) is like comparing Poland to Switzerland...


Besides after the events of 1920 when strikes in Danzig and blockade from Czechoslovakia cresulted in the whole Gdynia project - Poland would not agree to have its lifeline cut without some devastating events - and only temporary.







Likewise, while Polish terrorism is a possibility, it is far less likely to be serious in a world where the issue is a lost province, not extermination; and it will also make Poland into a rogue state.

Who says it would be state supported. Poland would simply declare the terrorists rogue themselves (while secretely supplying them) - the people would be from Greater Poland and Pomerelia - there were enough of them.


I'm not so sure about the Kahsubians, BTW.


If you look at the numbers from the 1920 Plebiscites in East Prussia

Irrelevant - the plebicite was made in July 1920 - have a look at the map at that time - Red Army was at the gates of Warsaw and everyone predicted it will be over soon. German population in some contested areas started celebrating already.

, it appears that plenty of non-Germans voted to remain part of Germany, most likely ; so it's unclear what the Kashubians would have done.

Kashubians did not (almost) vote in the plebiscite - Mazurians did. Mazurians had much worse Polish identity and germanisation didn't target them so there was far less dissent.

Besides Germany offered them some special privilages (promises of some pensions, additional funds for the locals etc) which were never given - Kashubians already tasted the money, often largest amounts of money they have ever seen.

By the 1930s, of course, they would probably vote for Poland, if the subject was put to a plebiscite.


Kashubians and Silesians for sure.
I have never heard about Polish terrorism in Berlin during WW2, so I'm curious and would appreciate info. But, it also seems to me that it's unlikely in this TL, if war should break out.

Clandestine section of Polish intelligence networks under the Home Army carried out at least two reprisal bombings in Berlin's communication stations - in 1942 if I remember correctly.
It could be even described in Wikipedia - check for the links in Prometheism.

It was a part of the action which targeted German morale - another project (far more successful) was to fake a sort of German anti-Nazi resistence - caried out mainly by the Poznan section. Even some German historians from the after war period took believed in this.


It would be like IRA, but stronger (because the people would be a majority) and weaker (because of other factors).
First, losing the Corridor and having to ship goods through Germany is hardly the same as being exterminated. Second, it would guarantee that Poland is treated as a rogue state within Europe.

Nope. In this timeline the whole question of extermination wouldn't exists at all.
Let's forget about it completely - because it never happened it wouldn't worry anyone.

Losing Pomerelia would be the greatest challenge and would cause a lot of dissent and actually I think it was one of very, very few situations whre Poland could become a fascist state.
The militaristic camp of Rydz-Śmigły could win against the centrist 'castle camp' of president Mościcki and minister Beck.

Local terrorism (secretely supported by some sections of the intelligence agency) would be very likely, though it would be only certain if Greater Poland was lost (local majority would never forgive that) - with the loss of Pomerelia, less likely, but the more I think about it the more realistic it becomes.

After all it would be a generation after this territory was reclaimed - a generation 18-20 years old at that moment. Let's not forget the long tradition of Polish terrorism - many of those people who created underground cells of resistence and special sections which were engaged in various, subtle missions (e.g. Operation 'Łom' in Transcarpathian Ruthenia in 1939) built the secret networks of the Second Republic.

Poland wouldn't blamed for that seriously if that was played right (and it would - the guys were hardly amateurs - just basic information about known members is enough) - 'what can we do that the local population resents German rule ?'.
Besides the public image of Poland was hardly the thing those people cared - that is it was (and sometimes still is) so bad before the war, but contrary to the perfect PR in the XIXth century it brought solid results.
After the shock of losing Pomerelia it wouldn't matter too much anyway - the general feeling would be that France has betrayed, while the opinion about the UK would be worse than in real life's 1950-60s.

Even if Lithuania was given as a compensation after the war (the only reason the area could be given up) its annexation would rather be seen as returning it to the unity with Poland while reclaiming Pomerelia would stay the priority.

Would be very similar to Ireland's case with Ulster, but with Pomerelia as the key to Polish economy, sizable majority and several powerful lobby groups pushing for its return.


What I wrote above is most probable prediction, but simply there were no groups, no political parties (except the communists, but who cared about them anyway because they rejected the whole Polish independence after all) and only a very small number of politicians who could accept that - simply I cannot choose a different option because there was none.
It is not even the question of my point of view - it is improbable...


For someone so keen on on alternative history it is almost a disappointment.
 

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cegorach said:
Comparing it to Hungary or Czechoslovakia (what the... :eek: ) is like comparing Poland to Switzerland...

Maybe I'm not clear; the argument would be that Poland doesn't need a port, whatever justifiable reasons it has to want one. Those nations get by without one, after all.

Hey, maybe the Germans propose an exclave for Gdynia. I'm sure that works out well.

Who says it would be state supported. Poland would simply declare the terrorists rogue themselves (while secretely supplying them) - the people would be from Greater Poland and Pomerelia - there were enough of them.

Except funding a terrorist group is hard to keep secret.

Kashubians did not (almost) vote in the plebiscite - Mazurians did.

I know; my point was that one group already did vote otherwise.



Poland wouldn't blamed for that seriously if that was played right (and it would - the guys were hardly amateurs - just basic information about known members is enough) - 'what can we do that the local population resents German rule ?'.

Is it bad that the first thing that comes to mind is a population exchange?

A twisted, sordid mess.

For someone so keen on on alternative history it is almost a disappointment.

???

Anarcho_Liberal said:
Hmmm good point. Especially because it seems that Stresemann's party is very Protestant heavy is there any fights with the Centre of secularisation of German society against Avant Garde culture, Jazz, Abortion etc.?

Oh, yes. Americanization is a deadly threat, what with their jazz and materialist ways. Hrm. Might almost be worth a post, as I desperately continue to stave off making decisions. Abortion is still illegal, as it was under Weimar, BTW.


Milites said:
Would the Prussian military aristocracy really just shrug off a loss of Königsberg like that?

If it's unlikely, yes. What actually happened is I stated the war without building any transports. :eek:o

But next, if I don't do France first, comes Czechoslovakia. Once I figure out Germany's intentions. While the Foreign Office claimed to have no intentions to violate its borders, at Locarno Stresemann explicitly refused to guarantee them. Hrm.
 

unmerged(47288)

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Oh, yes. Americanization is a deadly threat, what with their jazz and materialist ways. Hrm. Might almost be worth a post, as I desperately continue to stave off making decisions. Abortion is still illegal, as it was under Weimar, BTW.
I know it is illegal but weren't the catholics concerned about its enforcement being too lax and its punishment too little?

Could we see the Centre emerge as a potent conservative movement over the next few years?
 

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Anarhco Liberal said:
I know it is illegal but weren't the catholics concerned about its enforcement being too lax and its punishment too little?

Could we see the Centre emerge as a potent conservative movement over the next few years?

It's an option; but balanced against this is the fear of moving to the right and ditching Germany's working class catholics, who have more pressing issues. And they certainly aren't going to attract Protestant conservatives.
 

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Through a Dark Valley: The Spanish Civil War


____________________​


The Alcazar of Toledo could not have stood against a modern army. Its thick granite walls would just be shrapnel from bombs or artillery, and srve as coffins for the soldiers within. It wasn’t even a fortress anymore; just a military academy to teach Spain’s soldiers. Nor was its commander, Colonel José Moscardó, a hero. He was an old man with a gray beard and a love of football and his family. But he was what Spain had, and so for weeks he had held the Alcazar against the revolutionaries. They had slaughtered good men and women outside the fortress, so that the rotting remains of flesh still covered the streets.

Moscardó was no hero. Yet he had rallied at thousand man to the red and gold standard of the true Spain. Franco was coming, he knew. Franco was coming and would save them. If only he just held out, this nightmare would end. He looked out over the city, as if he could see Franco coming across the plains.

Just then, a soldier knocked on the door of his office. The boy who walked in was a thiny and wiry lad who had never seemed that suited to soldiering. Moscardó had heard his father had made him join the army, but the boy never complained about his situation. With the onsent of the revoluion, he had never protested once, even as he ate mule stew and smoked the leaves of elm trees in a fortress under siege. Like so many of the men with Moscardó ,he had remained true to a Spain that did not deserve him. He deserved a medal, but Moscardó couldn’t even clothe the boy. He was forced to wear the panoply of a Napoleonic hussar, filched from the Academy’s Museum. Moscardó forced himself to smile, and said amiably, “Quiet today, isn’t it?”

The boy nodded, but kept his gaze focused on the floor. “Colonel,” he said, “it’s your son. He’s on the phone.”

Moscardó lunged past the boy and picked up the phone in his office’s antechamber. Cradling the telephone in his hand, he whispered his son’s name. “Father,” came the reply. His son’s voice was quavering, and his words oddly mushy. “They caught me.”

Moscardó gripped the phone tightly. “Tell them if they don’t release you I will kill fifty hostages.”

There the sound like a crack on the other end of the phone, and then his son’s voice came back on, mixed with sobbing. “They say if you don’t surrender they will kill me.”

Moscardó was silent, thinking of his son. He was a good boy, always kind to his horse and the servants. He was meant for so much. How easy would it be to agree, to see his son again. The bastards would probably even keep their word; they didn’t want to be known for killing soldiers that surrendered.

But Colonel Jose Moscardó had a duty to Spain, and to the men under his command. “Give your soul to God, my son, and die with Viva España! on your lips.” He thought back to the days when he had cradled his son in his arms, and to when he had taught him to ride. So long ago, and yet so recent. He remembered the way he had said goodbye to his son when he was a child. He would never say it again, now. “Kiss kiss.”

He heard his son’s voice become calm, and his breath even. “Goodbye, Father.”

The square was silent for the next few minutes, while Moscardó looked out of the window. His throat clenched as he saw his son walk into the street, and for a moment he hoped the bastards were going to release him.

It was a foolish hope, of course. He saw his son salute his executioners, but never heard the words that escaped his lips. Just two sounds, as a revolutionary raised his gun.

Kiss kiss.

There was a full moon that night, and the lamps of a Madrid film studio bathed the battered fortress in a vivid, theatrical effulgence. Against the dark immensity of the sky, it was easy to spot the soldiers on the roof, including one who, bizarrely, was dressed liked a veteran of the Peninsular Campaign.

And it was even easier to see fifty hostages plummet into the river below.


____________________


spanishpsoterzr8.jpg



The outbreak of the Civil War was not, in hindsight, surprising. The Popular Front’s victory caused the military to begin plotting, as it had repeatedly in the past. Yet unlike in past years, the coup was neither crushed nor successful. Instead, Spain found itself divided in two for a war that lasted several years. The question that historians have wondered is why neither side was able to achieve victory early on, and why Spain had to suffer for years before the becoming a democracy.

one must remember the violent nature of Spanish politics in 1936. Churches were burned, newspaper offices gutted, and politicians of the right and left were gunned down in the street. Rumors of plots had swirled for months, yet the government was still caught flatfooted. With the military’s loyalty questionable, it was unable to take firm action against the rebels, at least at first. Thus the government was forced to turn to the trade unions and far left parties for support, most of whose members thought the revolt would collapse before the weight of history. The military, for its part, was faced with vigorous opposition, and so spent the first few months of the civil war consolidating its position.

And so the cities of Spain became killing grounds for the right and left. In the first few nights of the coup, Barcelona’s churches burned with a golden hue, each tiny pinnacle and turret bright against the sky. To hide from the revolutionaries, the city’s middle-class donned shabby clothes and stayed at home, while criminals released from jail served a agents of revolutionary justice. In Southern Spain, Franco’s Moorish soldiers burned and pillaged their way across the countryside, reenacting the Moorish conquest. The Popular Front had dreamed of uniting the nation to avert a civil war, but now faced with one, its leaders, plump men in business suits, had no idea what to do.

While the politicians dithered, Spain's people acted. The Ritz in Barcelona was renamed Hotel Gastronomic No. 1, while illiterate carpenters made ballads about working class solidarity. The Republic’s militias armed themselves with whatever they had at hand, and so villagers dusted off ancient breastplates and arquebuses, and took them into battle against the military’s machine guns and artillery. It was a heroic effort which unfortunately happened to be disastrous.

The militiamen were apt to leave their post whenever they pleased, whether to pick grapes at home or to enjoy the revolution’s aphrodisiac nature. It should come as no surprise, then, that vast swathes of Spain were taken by the Nationalists in the opening months of the war.

Yet the tide soon turned, and Blum’s efforts to arm the Republic against the Nationalists soon had an effect. The Republic’s air force was puny, consisting of obsolete French aircraft and whatever Stalin was willing to send, but it was capable of annihilating the Nationalist bombers that attacked Madrid throughout 1936, and the Republic’s air superiority played a key role in defeating the Nationalist assault on Asturias. [1] Control over Northwestern Spain was ultimately vital to the Republic’s victory, for it contained much of spain's coal and iron. Without it, the Nationalists could not hope to prosecute the war.

Yet while the Republic was able to defend its territory and ultimately advance against the Nationalists, no one knew what would follow if the Republicans won.

“The war is lost, absolutely lost, and, if by a miracle it were won, we Republicans would have to embark on the first boat that left Spain – if they allowed us to.”-Manuel Azaña​

Although Manuel Azaña’s remained president for several more years, he lost most of his true power as it became apparent he could not handle the situation. Spain’s noiminal leader roamed the halls of the National Palace like a ghost, and the situation cried for new leadership. Unfortunately for Spain, the new leadership came in the form Largo Caballero, whose well-filled black suit and solid build portrayed his origins as a brick layer and trade union leader. Caballero kept up the appearances of a democratic government, and in October he assembled the Cortes for the first time since the fighting began. Spain, its supporters claimed, fought for democracy, and not for socialism. If anybody noticed that the Cortes was surprisingly empty, as many politicians had been executed, well, nobody questioned it. They had no desire to suffer the same fate as other enemies of the Republic, after all.

Meanwhile, the Republic struggled against itself. In Barcelona, the Communist parties moved against the Trotskyites and Anarchists. From there, they soon moved against Catalan separatists, and the Republic developed a secret police force modeled on the NKVD.

The first phase of the Spanish Civil War ended in October of 1938, as Seville fell to the Republican Army. The second phase, unfortunately, began soon after.

screensave146ce6.png

[1] Germany has bombers, but needs hard currency. Republican Spain has hard currency, and needs bombers.

Guess what happens next?
 

Anazagar

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Faeelin said:
Maybe I'm not clear; the argument would be that Poland doesn't need a port, whatever justifiable reasons it has to want one. Those nations get by without one, after all.

Well there is one reason why Poland needs a port - it wants to be independent. Without a port it would be totaly dependent on the good will of Germany (and no offence, theres not much of that)

Faeelin said:
Hey, maybe the Germans propose an exclave for Gdynia. I'm sure that works out well.

And how are you going to transport things to Gdynia if Germany controls whole Pommerelia and more importantly the mouth of Vistula river?? Because no - one wants to pay extra german tarrifs.


Faeelin said:
Except funding a terrorist group is hard to keep secret.

Keep secret to whom i ask. To goverments?? Probably. To the public (which is more important in democracy)?? Not Rly.

Faeelin said:
Is it bad that the first thing that comes to mind is a population exchange?

A twisted, sordid mess.

Well the population exchange (or rather expulsion of Germans) is the only thing that the central Europe can be thankfull for to Uncle Joe.


Faeelin said:
Guess what happens next?

Madnesss??? This is REVOLUTION!1!!1111!1
 

El Pip

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Faeelin said:
Bah!

If I were in Britain I'd take advantage of your loose definition of libel and sue. In fact I could do so anyway, but it's far more of a hassle.
And you wonder why lawyers have the reputation they have? That post would be exhibit A for the defence. ;)

Besides a recent court case has determined that, as this is on an interweb message board, I've slandered you not libelled. Completely different apparently.

Anyway, interesting updates. Still hoping for Germany to make some mistake, just for variety. But that's probably as likely as a nice right leaning character appearing. :p :D

Good old José Moscardó, you have to admire such commitment to duty even if you don't agree with his politics. You can't give in to murdering blackmailing commies, you'll only encourage them to do it again to some other poor bugger. That and they'll probably kill him anyway for being an 'enemy of the people' or some such rot.
 

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Hey, what an awesome update!
It was about time we had a commie country in western Europe, this is going to be funny hehe. Indeed this is what would have probably happened if the Republicans won, even thou you have to understand how weak was the Communist Party in Spain before the war, they had very few thousands of militants, while the Anarchists for instance had about a million (on a population of 20 millions), but those commies were extremelly militant, they were hardcore former socialists (the PCE was an excision from the Socialist Party, the same governing now btw), miners, metal industry workers who were extremelly well organized and were even able to stage a coup-strike in Asturias, declaring it independent and creating several socialist entities for a couple of weeks in '34 before they were crushed (by Franco btw hehe). The party was heavily founded by Moscow (when the war was lost most of them fled to Moscow and became officers and military counsellors), and when the weapons came from Mother Russia it was them who got them. Also the Civil War radicalizated many workers, who turned to the PCE because of their organization and their actual power, this may explain why in the end of the war (the real one and this one probably too) they were so powerfull when they were so weak in the begining...
 

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Faeelin said:
Guess what happens next?

Spain DoWs on Germany for his support to Franco?
 

Faeelin

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Anazagar said:
Well there is one reason why Poland needs a port - it wants to be independent. Without a port it would be totaly dependent on the good will of Germany (and no offence, theres not much of that)

Not at all.

And how are you going to transport things to Gdynia if Germany controls whole Pommerelia and more importantly the mouth of Vistula river?? Because no - one wants to pay extra german tarrifs.

Well, one proposal OTL was for extraterritorial roads between Germany and East Prussia/Danzig; perhaps the same thing could apply here.

Keep secret to whom i ask. To goverments?? Probably. To the public (which is more important in democracy)?? Not Rly.

The Polish public, perhaps. The German public? Umm. I suspect they would find it easy to believe that the Poles were poisoning school children's milk.