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Faeelin

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Fulcrumvale said:
Eastern European economic servitude to Germany could have all sorts of fascinating implications…

Heh. Fascinating is certainly one term for it.

Karelian said:
One can only hope that Rome-Berlin Axis won´t give Poland unnecessary guarantees, thus making their negotiation position more realistic, and that Stresemann will resist the temptation of making such a deal alltogether, no matter how tempting it looks like.

For me it seems that Stalin tries to play a classic game of "Let you and him fight" with this proposal.

Eh, Stresemann was and is no fool. I actually figured out how to use one of my favorite quotes from him in the AAR.

Course, it also depends on how the Poles et al. act. Should the Paris-Rome Pact show division, who knows?


Anazagar said:
You mean teh evil Rome-Paris (and half of mittleeuropa) anti-german (who just wants peace and prosperity for everyone) axis of evil of course.

Well, let's see. On the German side... Hungary, for now; Yugoslavia, Romania sitting on the fence. On the Franco-Italian: Well, the Czechs. And Poland.

If it makes you feel better, I'll do a scene involving Case White.


Tob.Ristlin said:
Wooo, I honestly wasn't expecting a soviet-german alliance, not that is happening, but the fact that talks are beeing held makes me a happy panda ^^, what an interesting move from Moscow, but Great Brittain is no fool, they have to realize this danger is real, and I don't think some Tariffs are worth becoming the most isolated nation in Europe, as I don't see any change in American policies regarding international affairs.

Well, I could argue America either way. On the one hand, Europe looks far less depressing than it did in the 1930s. So, perhaps.

Also the Soviet Union is quite close to China....like what, 4.000 kms of border counting Mongolia? Economic interest from Germany there and a possible share of interests for the Mother Russia could make the Sino-japanese war quite messy hehehe....

Forget Germany; the USSR is quite capable of handling the Japanese on its own. But we shall see. Germany has... 2 transports ATM. So.

Though it'd be a humorous conflict. "In defense of the Chinese people and European investments, the Soviet Union marches to war!"

Taking about America and GB....3 party war anyone? America-GB / Rome-Paris-Japan / USSR-Germany C'mon, that would be sweeeet!

Ssee, that sort of talk is how Oceania ends up at war with Eurasia.

We'll see. But must it all end in tears?
 

Faeelin

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Side question: How do people think the Fourth Republic would react to the Republicans gaining the upper hand in Spain?
 

Anazagar

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Faeelin said:
Side question: How do people think the Fourth Republic would react to the Republicans gaining the upper hand in Spain?

I dont think that direct invasion would be plausible - even the French understand that such an action would make Britania look for another ally in continental Europe, one that doesn't do such crazy warmongering things and just wants peace and prosperity for all (German) people. OTOH communist/anarchists ruling in Spain would be a big no-no so sending arms and "volounteers" is very possible
 

Tob.Ristlin

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And yet another French iberian retreat? I'm not completely sold to the idea, and also would be interesting to see if Brittain have any interest in keeping Spain as a democratic country on the backwards of a potential enemy such as France, in a key position in the Mediterrany, I really doubt it, specially taking into consideration the ideological differences between the republicans and the Brittish government.
Maybe the italians would intervene too, having France as some kind of ally virtually means Italy have borders with Spain, and they can allways send troops by sea...But I don't think so eaither, if I were a statesman at that time I would think that Spain won't be any threat for years, with the reconstruction of the whole country and shuch, and it's too risky to intervene when there's few to win, but hey, who knows...
 

Faeelin

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Anazagar said:
I dont think that direct invasion would be plausible - even the French understand that such an action would make Britania look for another ally in continental Europe, one that doesn't do such crazy warmongering things and just wants peace and prosperity for all (German) people. OTOH communist/anarchists ruling in Spain would be a big no-no so sending arms and "volounteers" is very possible

I'm not entirely convinced Britain would be that upset; they controlled about 40% of foreign investment in Spain; good luck keeping that under the Anarcho/commie/seperatist government of the Republic.

The bigger problem would be that Germany can then say, "Look, if they can't agree to a League nonintervention policy, how can we trust them to not invade the Rhine?"

The other problem is that the Fourth Republic, and the right-wing alliance, came to power on a policy of non-intervention in the Civil War. Whatever La Rocque wants, the rest of France might not agree to.

(The Fourth Republic really needs fiddling with, I think. Hrmm.)

Tob.Ristlin said:
And yet another French iberian retreat? I'm not completely sold to the idea, and also would be interesting to see if Brittain have any interest in keeping Spain as a democratic country on the backwards of a potential enemy such as France, in a key position in the Mediterrany, I really doubt it, specially taking into consideration the ideological differences between the republicans and the Brittish government.

Well, Italy intervened in the war historically. No reason for that to change.

Hmm.
 

Faeelin

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Enewald said:
Tariffs, yayz!

So when shall Mittel-Europea be born?
As soon as you can get the Baltic nations on board, obviously.

Oh, I gave France ten more IC. They need it, it seems like.
 

Tob.Ristlin

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Well, Italy intervened in the war historically. No reason for that to change.

True, they could actually feel safer intervening (is that the correct form of the verb? sorry, english is not my native tongue :p) as France is no longer an ideological enemy at their front door.

What about the Soviet Union? With no Germany intervention, and GB more isolated they could also feel like their comrades from the PCE could use some more help to gain even more influence in the republican government, this occured historically too, if the civil war had lasted half a year more the most important parts of the government would have probably been in hands of the commies. That's what you get when all the weapons and supplies that you can find come from Moscow, Madrid was already heading towards Moscow, but the brittish virtual blockade didn't help either. The war is probably won, but it's gonna be interesting what sort of state has the 2nd Republic became...
 

Faeelin

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Planning for a Better Tomorrow

_____________________________________________

screensave134ev6.png

“And this, Herr President, is but one of the offices where the High Command plans to defend the Fatherland. As a demonstration of our progress, we would like to show you Case White, the plan for the liberation of Posen and the Corrdor.” The officer guided him into a room lit by bright white lights, and it contained about a dozen officers talking and pointing at a map. The air in the room felt stale, and many of the officers were heavyset and pale. Typical staff officers, in other words.


The officers saluted as the president entered, but after a brief nod he surveyed the map. It was covered with pieces and tiles, representing German and Polish units. At the moment, Germany’s tiles were deployed near the eastern border of a considerably smaller Poland. “I approve,” he said after a moment. He looked at the map and thought. “This is Case White, you said?” [1]


The officer nodded. “As you can see, it assumes that we invade from all along the Polish border, and use our mobile forces to encircle the Poles near Posen.” At the officer’s command, some harried soldiers pushed pieces across the map, surrounding the Polish units. Those pieces were then carefully removed from the map, although a careless officer knocked over a Czech armored battalion.

screensave137py5.png

“Fair enough, but what are the Poles doing at the time?”

The officer shrugged. “We anticipate they try to take East Prussia, and there’s a small chance we lose Königsberg. But for the most part, our aerial supremacy will let us interdict their troop movements, and we simply have more, and better ones.” He gestured to the soldiers, who moved some other pieces. “As you can see, after several weeks campaigning we expect to hold Warsaw.”

“Ultimately, we hope to trap the Polish military in a giant kessel before the city, either near Posen or to the east of Lodz.”

Stresemann stared at the tiles for a moment. They soldiers seemed giddy, like boys playing a game, but in his mind he saw burning villages and columns of refugees. “Why wouldn’t the Poles deploy their troops in Warsaw? House to house, they would grind our troops, no?”

screensave139tw4.png

The officer nodded. “We have a few reasons to hope that would not be the case. First, whether Warsaw holds is irrelevant. We don’t want the damned city. So their goal must be to defend the corridor, their Silesian holdings, and Posen.” He made a face. “Much good it will do them.” Continuing, the officer said, “Finally, if they deploy troops in Warsaw, then we might be able to classify the city as a military target, allowing us to bomb the city at will.”

Stresemann leaned on his cane. “I see. And this scenario presumes neutrality on the part of the other great powers?”

The officer nodded. “There are alternatives. Case Pink entails a joint invasion with the Soviets. Then we have plans for an invasion with the support of Lithuania-“[2]

Stresemann snorted. “But can we risk being tied to such a mighty nation?” He looked at the soldiers around him, and noticed how many were pale and haggard. “I approve. I do have one question, though. Your plan relies on the neutrality of the great powers. The Italians are feckless cowards who would rather make ice cream than fight, but what about the rest?”

The officer blinked. “What about them?”

“What of France? Do you really think that La Rocque would respect Locarno? Where is England? Did it sink beneath the waves? The Czechs,” he mused, “must be busy negotiating a new Concordat. Perhaps the Russians, if we do not buy them off, are busy undergoing an anarchist revolution. America, well, I imagine they’ve been ruined by tornadoes and financial speculation.”

The officer grunted. “America is tired of blood after the World War.”

Stresemann laughed bitterly. “You know, lad, I once thought as you did. America had done nothing since their brief war with Spain, and their Civil War before that. They had, in 1914, no army; and we were already blockaded, so what good was their navy?” His voice distant, he looked back to bygone days. “And so I urged the navy to deploy its u-boats against their transports, and hoped that we could choke the British Isles.”

The officer was silent. “You had every right, sir. It’s not as if the British had no qualms about starving Germany.”

Stresemann waved the comment aside. “Be that as it may, what did it get us?” He shrugged. “If the Americans had stayed neutral, we might have yet won.” He smiled fondly. “A German Empire, reformed to give the people a greater voice, astride Europe like a colossus. We could have saved Russia from Communism. We could have propped up the Habsburgs, instead of the patchwork of squabbling despots that replaced them.” His face darkened for a moment. “And if the war hadn’t uprooted Germany’s middle class, ruined the lives and hopes of millions who had not caused the war, maybe we would never had to deal with the Nazis and their ilk.” [3]

The soldiers in the war room were silent for a moment, until one of the soldiers maneuvering pieces spoke up. “It is not too late, Herr President. Germany can find its rightful place in the sun.”

Stresemann shook his head. “The last war left Europe broken. With bigger bombs, better poison gas, and stronger artillery, what would be left standing? We can find our way without getting Germans killed.” He cleared his throat. “Still, I applaud your efforts to develop this plan. We must hope that we never have to use it, but if we do, then I am confident you will carry it out.” Stresemann looked at the Czech unit that had been pushed aside, and smiled. “Furthermore,” he added, “Czechoslovakia may indeed be otherwise distracted if we act.”

"Sir?"

Stresemann shrugged. "Nothing that isn't in their best interest, really."


[1] Before you ask, I took the first shot to fiddle with what the postwar borders would be.

[2] Case... White orange? Case Mandarin?

[3] Because obviously the silent dictatorship of Ludendorff and the quasi-Nazi ideology so common late in the war would have gone away if the people who proposed it led Europe, right?
 
Last edited:

unmerged(47288)

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So I see Stresseman has a very non-ideological type of foriegn policy. Interesting, that is what I would expect from a Stresseman, Chancellorship in the 1930's. I disagree that the Social Democrats would be marginalized that much though. Could we see a breaking down of the Centrist's domination of Catholics in the future?
 

trekaddict

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Why do I get the feeling that they have a plan named "Case Yellow" in a drawer somewhere?
 

Faeelin

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Anarhco Liberal said:
So I see Stresseman has a very non-ideological type of foriegn policy. Interesting, that is what I would expect from a Stresseman, Chancellorship in the 1930's. I disagree that the Social Democrats would be marginalized that much though. Could we see a breaking down of the Centrist's domination of Catholics in the future?

Well, why would the Center's domination break down? It's possibly, and arguably started to happen in the 20s, but the Center held their own against the Nazis, up until 1933. They aren't gonna fall before Stresemann.

The Social Democrats come back in a big way in an update that's still rolling around in my head, involving the cartels, Stresemann, and Germany's courts. But I also think people have had enough of reading about the German economy. So we'll see.

Zauberfloate;of course. We must hope for peace while preparing for war.

Trekaddict: Yes, but since that doesn't end as well we don't talk about it.
 

TheExecuter

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Tob.Ristlin said:
True, they could actually feel safer intervening (is that the correct form of the verb? sorry, english is not my native tongue :p) as France is no longer an ideological enemy at their front door.

Yes, that is the correct form of the verb. It may be better written as follows:

True, they could actually feel safer intervening, since France is no longer an ideological enemy at their front door.

TheExecuter
 

Faeelin

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Tob.Ristlin said:
What about the Soviet Union? With no Germany intervention, and GB more isolated they could also feel like their comrades from the PCE could use some more help to gain even more influence in the republican government, this occured historically too, if the civil war had lasted half a year more the most important parts of the government would have probably been in hands of the commies. That's what you get when all the weapons and supplies that you can find come from Moscow, Madrid was already heading towards Moscow, but the brittish virtual blockade didn't help either.

Oh, absolutely.

A shame. An anarchist state would be interesting, in a Chinese sense.
 

unmerged(59737)

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Case White, as Stressman pointed out, seems dangerously optimistic regarding the intervention of other powers. I don’t like where that line of thought goes…but then again, the harder the war is the more interesting story it’ll be.
 

Tob.Ristlin

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TheExecuter said:
Yes, that is the correct form of the verb. It may be better written as follows:

True, they could actually feel safer intervening, since France is no longer an ideological enemy at their front door.

TheExecuter

Thanks man, I really appreciate every comment regarding my english, it's nice to improve it while talking about "history" hehe.

Regarding the war plans, I'm assuming Stressman is going to ask for a revision of the Versailles borders with Poland wich seems logical from his point of view, but I don't think goin on WAR (Danzing or WAR) would make much sense right now, surely the Soviets would love to get their huge slice of Poland, but that doesn't mean they would fully support Germany in a war against France and Italy, neither can I see how would Stressman risk german relations with GB, to a point of event getting into a war against them, Germany may well be able to take over Poland alone without much trouble, but i'm not so sure if they could do so against a superpower.

Is there any possible pacific solution for a NO from Poland when asked to give Danzig and the corridor to the Germans? Economical agreements perhaps with granted acces to the sea in some ports of even in the Lituanian coast? Stressman must have a C plan...