German Empire: Problems with the Bear

[hkrommel]

I just went through a game where I restored the Kaiser, and went through the various foci to create the anti-Soviet alliance. However, the Soviets still insisted on following their path to annex the Baltics, resulting in a massive war where the Soviets were utterly smashed within a year.

Did the new patch/DLC add any checks that the Soviet AI uses before getting itself killed? It seems really odd that the Soviets would look at the whole of Europe, see most of it arrayed against them, then go "yeah annexing Latvia is totally worth risking getting invaded and annexed in short order." It's a totally insane decision that ruined the game for me, from that point on it was too easy.

If there is no check, is there a mod that adds one?

 

[Secret Master]

I read your thread title as "Problems with the beer" and I was going to offer some advice on fermenting and brewing.

To your actual problem: How did it result in a war? Does the Kaiser path ally you to the Baltic nations?

 

[Stug_Life]

I read your thread title as "Problems with the beer" and I was going to offer some advice on fermenting and brewing.

To your actual problem: How did it result in a war? Does the Kaiser path ally you to the Baltic nations?

yeah you go down focuses that allow you to guarantee Finland, Poland, and the Baltic.

 

[hkrommel]

To your actual problem: How did it result in a war? Does the Kaiser path ally you to the Baltic nations?

Guarantees. It resulted in a weird scenario where I actually joined the Polish faction for the purposes of the war, but I left afterwards. I also had Hungary as an ally.

 

[Meglok]

yeah you go down focuses that allow you to guarantee Finland, Poland, and the Baltic.

Well, those actions would probably result in Stalin becoming paranoid and lashing out. Is it happening too soon in the timeline or what? I could see it being an issue if it was happening in 1938. But 1940 I could see blowing up.

The soviets probably need a check to see if they have at least parity on the border before going to war. 1.5:1 would be better or when they are out from under most of the purge effects.

 

[Arch-Heretek]

I think its supposed to lead to war, but IMO it triggers too early since at this time the Soviet Army isn't exactly at their height. 1941 maybe? And it should probably be based off a demand against Poland or Fiinland rather than the Baltics.

It seems that when they added the "adaptive focus trees" for historical they may have overlooked the Soviet Union changing in response to a different Germany.

Especially the German Democracy tree, essentially its the world versus the USSR at that point and completely one-sided until the also-unaltered US tree messes up and declares on Germany.

 

[Secret Master]

guarantee Finland, Poland, and the Baltic.

Bug it. This is all to similar to Finland asking to join the Axis during the Winter War and Germany accepting.

 

[Stug_Life]

Especially the German Democracy tree, essentially its the world versus the USSR at that point and completely one-sided until the also-unaltered US tree messes up and declares on Germany.

Actually that one is somewhat more fair, since the USSR gets declare war options on the Baltics and Finland. Additionally, the USSR gets a 20% production bonuses to military factories. As democratic Germany, you cant do anything until WT gets high enough. So its a race for conquest and making friends lol.

P.S. I believe these bonuses for the USSR are created once you take the Red Menace focus.

 

[Tempestra]

I dunno, seems plausible to me? Or at least, makes as much sense as a not-fully-militarily-prepared Germany declaring war on Poland despite it being allied with France and the UK...

 

[Stug_Life]

I dunno, seems plausible to me? Or at least, makes as much sense as a not-fully-militarily-prepared Germany declaring war on Poland despite it being allied with France and the UK...

Haaa... I see what you did there.

 

[hkrommel]

Well, those actions would probably result in Stalin becoming paranoid and lashing out. Is it happening too soon in the timeline or what? I could see it being an issue if it was happening in 1938. But 1940 I could see blowing up.

The soviets probably need a check to see if they have at least parity on the border before going to war. 1.5:1 would be better or when they are out from under most of the purge effects.

I think its supposed to lead to war, but IMO it triggers too early since at this time the Soviet Army isn't exactly at their height. 1941 maybe? And it should probably be based off a demand against Poland or Fiinland rather than the Baltics.

I think that the Soviets acting later is probably the right solution here. If Germany doesn't have commitments elsewhere and has a substantial alliance or quasi-alliance built up, the Soviets shouldn't be as confident as they seem to be in declaring war. The solution could be a force parity issue, but the problem with that is that I'm not actually allies with the Poles/Finns/Baltics, I have guarantees. My forces wouldn't be included in those border parity counts.

Perhaps the Soviets should be weighted to focus on the Far East in this situation?

It seems that when they added the "adaptive focus trees" for historical they may have overlooked the Soviet Union changing in response to a different Germany.

This was my thought as well.

I dunno, seems plausible to me? Or at least, makes as much sense as a not-fully-militarily-prepared Germany declaring war on Poland despite it being allied with France and the UK...

Eh, it worked out for the Allies in large part because Germany declared war on the USSR. In this scenario Germany is at peace with France and the UK (they even offered me non-aggression pacts) so it, and all of Eastern Europe and Finland, can focus entirely on the USSR. Germany has open trade as well, which means I don't need to bother with synthetic plants.

 

[Meglok]

Perhaps the Soviets should be weighted to focus on the Far East in this situation?

No, they should prepare for the Kaiser turning east. Get out of the purge as much as they can, build up their army and air force, and then go after their rightful clay in the Baltics, Finland, Poland, Bessarabia, etc. That should probably be a 1941 spring timeline target.

I do agree with @Secret Master , bug report this. PDS wants to fix all of these focus conflicts in 1.5.2.

 

[CrazyZombie]

Problem is that right now HOI4 completely fails to show Interwar Soviet attempts to build own security pact or alliance with at least someone to avoid all-European crusade (technically, not completely failed IRL). Due to "brilliant" Soviet focus tree, ingame SU does nothing for 1,5-2 years when already focuses on foreign politics, and 3-4 years in general, since 1936 start.

So, if we assume, that thanks to democratic revolution in Germany, all-European coalition is already built (not completely inpossible variant, but Germany in that case should be way weaker - democrats won't be able to buff military production in the way, nazi did), SU won't try to expand anywhere - already too late. Rational variant for SU is any sort of non-agression agreement with Japan - after all, Japan won't profit from gaining mostly empty lands of the Far East while "South path" is highly promising. And here comes intense preparation for big defensive war - with european Comintern, waiting for the start to sabotage the rear, partisan training before war under the wing of NKVD, with prepared hidden vaults and stockpiles of equipment, ammunition and food (real plan before IRL expansion in 1939), building defensive line and etc.

 

[hkrommel]

No, they should prepare for the Kaiser turning east. Get out of the purge as much as they can, build up their army and air force, and then go after their rightful clay in the Baltics, Finland, Poland, Bessarabia, etc. That should probably be a 1941 spring timeline target.

I didn't communicate clearly, I meant focus their territorial expansion on the Far East. Certainly they should prepare for inevitable conquest in the West but if they strike out it shouldn't be against the Kaiser, at least until much later than 1939.

So, if we assume, that thanks to democratic revolution in Germany, all-European coalition is already built (not completely inpossible variant, but Germany in that case should be way weaker - democrats won't be able to buff military production in the way, nazi did), SU won't try to expand anywhere - already too late. Rational variant for SU is any sort of non-agression agreement with Japan - after all, Japan won't profit from gaining mostly empty lands of the Far East while "South path" is highly promising. And here comes intense preparation for big defensive war - with european Comintern, waiting for the start to sabotage the rear, partisan training before war under the wing of NKVD, with prepared hidden vaults and stockpiles of equipment, ammunition and food (real plan before IRL expansion in 1939), building defensive line and etc.

I guess the issue here is that, other than the Sino-Japanese war, there may be no war at all. A democratic Europe isn't going to start one unless the Soviets start getting aggressive, the Soviets won't start a war against a united (at least united against the Soviets) Europe unless they take the suicidal Trotsky path. The only real war in this case would be the democracies potentially teaming up against Japan to stop their invasion of China.

 

[CrazyZombie]

I guess the issue here is that, other than the Sino-Japanese war, there may be no war at all. A democratic Europe isn't going to start one unless the Soviets start getting aggressive, the Soviets won't start a war against a united (at least united against the Soviets) Europe unless they take the suicidal Trotsky path. The only real war in this case would be the democracies potentially teaming up against Japan to stop their invasion of China.

Border provocation in, let's say, Poland, shitstorm in newspapers, and here come the coalition of superheroes, who wants "revenge". Easy.
Couple of focuses and events - problem solved. Ingame Britain easily starts wars with either Scandinavia or Benilux as soon as there are too many communists or fascists there, despite they are still democratic.

 

[hkrommel]

Border provocation in, let's say, Poland, shitstorm in newspapers, and here come the coalition of superheroes, who wants "revenge". Easy.
Couple of focuses and events - problem solved. Ingame Britain easily starts wars with either Scandinavia or Benilux as soon as there are too many communists or fascists there, despite they are still democratic.

I guess the question is whether that should be a focus. My point is that the motivations for war aren't there, or at least are controlled. The Soviets will want Polish, Finish, Baltic, and Romanian territory, but unless they're insane they won't take on united Europe. The relevant countries in Europe will mostly want to be left alone by the Soviets, there weren't any claims I'm aware of that Poland would want to press against the Soviets, and I don't think the rest of Europe would back Poland up in an aggressive war. Remember we're talking about a Britain and France who don't want war under any circumstances, and a Germany that just had a bloody civil war of its own and isn't likely to be looking for another conflict. I just don't see a realistic narrative where either the Soviets or someone else intentionally starts a war.

 

[Arch-Heretek]

Well Yugoslavia, Italy, Bulgaria, Romania, and Greece still have tensions with each other and border conflicts, Turkey could also have a few.

Poland would only have motivation for expansion into Soviet territory as part of continuation war and if they really went hardcore for Pilsudki's ideas. Though the Polish tree is super barebones at the moment and there is no current way to represent this (though some mods can certainly help).

 

[CrazyZombie]

Poland, Romania, Baltic states, Finland. They will be pretty happy to get more land. Just read, what they were doing during Civil war in Russia to avoid common stereotype about innocent victims of "red imperialism".
Also, possibly Turkey. Depends on what Britain will offer them for participation.
Germany as central power, providing competent soldiers, other limitrophs and minors participate with "cannon fodder". Czechoslovakia won't take part in invasion, but can sell arms to anyone, who can pay.

Britain and France are not very likely to actively take part in the first phase (when "democratic coalition" is attacking side), but they can sell arms to others, provide other resources, maybe attack Baku oil fields with bombers without any national signs so "We have no idea, whose planes were this."

 

[hkrommel]

Just read, what they were doing during Civil war in Russia to avoid common stereotype about innocent victims of "red imperialism".

Retaking their homelands from foreign imperialists?

The rest of your post is one big [citation needed] for starting a war for which they don't have backup. The motivations just don't line up.

Either way let's try to keep this thread on topic to how the Soviet AI is an idiot.

 

[Secret Master]

We aren't talking about war crimes and genocide around here. We all know better.

Thread closed.