German 1936 game AAR (to be updated) long post!

[plasticpanzers]

I am playing single player 1936 Germany with all upgrades and most recent ICE mod.
I have been a critic of HOI3 since its release and although it still
has massive problems i find playing as Germany its the linchpin in any WW2
game that allows me to orchistrate how the war progresses at least. I have
been delighted I must say so far with my game as the upgrades PI has done
but most especially the ICE mod have made the game increasingly fun! This
thread will be on my game so far and what i have done and discovered about
playing it.

EDIT: this is not just an AAR but a review of the game mechanics now(at least
as Germany). I, for the first time, am having fun playing this game beyond 1939
(am currently in April 1941). This does not mean there are not problems with my
Allies in the Axis (that sounds strange) as Japan will or will not conquor China but
probably never sieze Manila, Port Moresby, or the Pacific Islands due to AI limits.


1936 the road to war

starting as Germany i am playing normal mode with AI running all Diplomacy,
trade, Politics, and Intel. Also i allow all my Theatre commands to run any
campaigns tho i do handle some smaller battles myself and conduct the sea
war and para drops. This balances out the poorer AI in combat by allowing
the AI to fight basically itself (an even field!). mistakes will be made but that
is Clauswitz's "no plan continues past the point combat begins (or such..."

1936 i begin by not doing any more naval builds but 4 transports (in series)
and 2 more Uboats. I start researching 26 items at the cost of almost all
but diplomancy leadership which i keep fully staffed. I research all air techs
related to fighter, TAC, and CAS ORG and MORALE. I research all ground
techs related to offensive action or those to raise Inf, Mot, Art, Armor ORG
and Morale and effecitiveness. I research armor to get medium armor and
also art and inf.

I start two interior builds of factories for 10 more in series to be done by 1941
I expect to use captured factories to make up some of what i would use for
ICs. I begin to fortify by coastal defences Kiel and Wilhelshaven (in past
games Britian and Canada have attacked there). I also build some level 4
airfields in Dortmund (or is it Dusseldorf??)

I begin parallel and series builds to have every German inf div an artillery
brigade by 1939. All new divs will start with them. I begin building Milita
brigades to garrison cities and VP sites or the AI Theater commands will
send full divisions to do so later. They also will provide the basic framework
for replacement divisions later on. The 3 early Panzer div each get a mot
arty unit.

As ICE allows for the Westwall construction thru events i build 10 infantry
divisions (3xI 1xA) to garrison it up thru Aachen and allow for a small reserve.

I begin a series build of 10 fighters, 4 tac, 6 CAS. no transports for now.
1 start a series of 3 builds each of Mot divisions of 2xMot, 1xltSPAT, 1xMOT
Arty). these with 3 panzer divisions started later on will give me 3 Panzer
Korps of 2 Panzer and 3 Mot divs each by 1939.

1937

All construction is going well. most divisions have their art brigades and
are slowing upgrading infantry. i also start a small upgrade program for
garrsion units. i do mark all Militia (I rename them Volksturm Regiments)
to recieve NO upgrades at this time. I build two Fortress divisons (3xG
1xA) for Kiel and Wilhelmshaven. 1 Garrison brigade (Fortress Regiments)
to each Baltic port (want to get these builds out of the way early). I hold
2 of these brigades in strategic reserve (ie not deployed) as they are for
Memel and Danzig when captured). The Westwall divisions are arriving
and being deployed along its line where it will be built.

I have researched the next level of submarines and are starting to construct
2 x 2 of them for later on. Also researching surface raider. Adding some
AAA to some cities with heavy factory presence. In ICE i am also starting
to research radio for inf and armor, recon, extra 88s, optics, Axis training.
still maintaining a 26 research level. Although by 1939 my leadership will
fall below 100 it will raise again as all major reserach basics are done as will
intel. by 1940 and more so later on so by 1941 its back to 130

1938

takeover in Austria. I keep all Austian units and build them up to a 10 Inf
div force with 3 (usually) Alpine Divs (again making all 3xI or 3xMountain plus
1xArt each (and research mountain warfare). the Schnell division is upgraded
and reinforced to become my favorite 116th Panzer Div 'Windhund' (I know it
did not exist at the time but so what! LOL!). It joins the beginning of a IV
Panzer Korps i keep in reserve for the Bitburg Theatre. The 15 divisions of
the Austrian and mountain troops will form the basis later on for my MED
THEATRE command which will be from the border of Switzerland to the border
of Poland after Czechoslovakia falls. I have been building a few more mtn
divsions and add them to the Austrian army. The inclusion of their HQ units
allows be to build the 1st and 2nd Army for the battles in Europe as well as
another army group for use in the Med or Russia. The extra corps command
of the Austrian allow me to organize them well and still have 1 left over to
convert to my IV Panzer Korps HQ.

There are variants in ICE and not all the events fire so you don't know if
some of your plans will work! fortunatly the Westwall start to fire and i know
it will be up for me by 1939 after two builds by event. I get the Lufthansa
event so i get the exairlines aircraft for a transport unit early. The event
for the conversion of liners does not fire later on so i get no extra naval
transports but i always built 4 in series to make up for what i will need at
minimum later on.

Early 1939

I have the AI running my Diplomacy hands off as well as politics. I just
keep having to adjust the production screen to keep things funded and
reduce internal strife! LOL!

Czechoslovakia has collapsed and Slovakia formed. Gives me a friendly
front that the Med Theatre moves most of its units up into for a strike later
on into S. Poland. remember my AI is running hands off on its operations!
If it screws up that is war. The addition in ICE of captured Skoda vehicles
give me 3 very small "light" divisions that with the initial Austrian ones gives
me the IV Panzer Korps ingredients. I also have started another mot div
to fill up the Korps to 5 divisions. I begin construction of 3 units of 1 Mot
and 1 MotArt for each light div to bring them up to 4 unit divisions. I will
not upgrade their armor til later. its very compatable to what other nations
have tho not as good as my first 3 panzer divisons that i have been upgrading
to 2 full medium tank brigades each over time.

I also start to organize my larger Luftwaffe. CAS groups of 2 CAS and 1 Ftr
for 3 groups attached to the 2 Armies invading Poland later. 5 Luftflottes of
2-3TAC and 1 Ftr attached to the Army groupe to provide support without
to much overstacking. Formed a Corps HQ for the Bitburg Theatre under
a good logistical officer and have named it "Luftwaffe Fighter Command West"
it will have 5 groups of 2 Fighters each and when the radar comes online in
cites it will provide air supremacy over France and later on England. it will
also do fairly well in protecing my cities from Strat Attacks from Britain.

I have continued to research newer sub tech and building another 2 x 2
sub units and now started 3 surface raiders for completion in 1940-41. No
new naval units at all but the 4 transports. start series of 3 air transports
and 4 Para Divisions.

I have assigned the Bitburg Command now to defend the West with Air to
defend. airbases are built, fighter units deployed (3 still building and now
started 4 more). Westwall is up and a div into each area in it. They are
not assigned to any Corps. I find they do quite well on their own and the
3 Corps of 3 Inf Div of Bitburg Command will move these around to support
them when needed. I have started series construction of 12 Coast Defence
divisions (3xG and 1xArt) for deployement in Denmark and N. France when
they are ready. Several new Assault gun brigades built and deployed but
i have not put them in divisions yet as they have 0 Org when the war starts.
they will support the West on my command (some of the few units i will
control myself).

Med command has most of its units deployed in Slovakia and against the S.
Polish border. Berlin HQ has its 1st and 2nd Army groups with their 1st and
2nd Army (and a small SS Korps) on the border ready to go. next stop
"Danzig or War!"

so far i have found few problems playing as Germany. some are:

use alot of manpower overrunning France. Some battles are far more WW1
than WW2. Armor does not seem to have the penetration it did in WW2 in
SF even with ICE. even with max research in armor techniques
Aircraft do not readily regain strength (this may be a bug in either SF or in
ICE). they still in 1941 have not regained strengh after 5 months of rest
Units regularly go outside control (radio) range of their HQs
NEVER give command of your navy to the AI as Germany! It will be used up
in a few months of war! lol! maintain human control of your navy.
to be continued. feel free to ask questions or critique me.

 

[Timmy41]

wrong forum

 

[plasticpanzers]

wrong answer but you are right. LOL! Looking up at the top of the screen i thought the AAR thread area was not being used. Clicked on it and found
out it was. thanks tho! This post is a bit more on the current state of game
play and the status of the game.

 

[unmerged(56084)]

How many Pz div's do you have in the fall of '39? How many Inf div in the west, and how many will you use to invade Poland? How large, and what is the breakdown of your air force? What is your Officer % ? Thx

 

[plasticpanzers]

email me at timsharonloeb@peoplepc.com and i will send you the zip savegame
file for 10-39 of my game to that point (i am actually in April 1941 now).

 

[unmerged(181758)]

...
I begin a series build of 10 fighters, 4 tac, 6 CAS. no transports for now.
...
I also start to organize my larger Luftwaffe. CAS groups of 2 CAS and 1 Ftr
for 3 groups attached to the 2 Armies invading Poland later. 5 Luftflottes of
2-3TAC and 1 Ftr attached to the Army groupe to provide support without
to much overstacking. Formed a Corps HQ for the Bitburg Theatre under
a good logistical officer and have named it "Luftwaffe Fighter Command West"
it will have 5 groups of 2 Fighters each and when the radar comes online in
cites it will provide air supremacy over France and later on England. it will
also do fairly well in protecing my cities from Strat Attacks from Britain.

I think your CAS and TAC groups remind me of how the AI employs that similar combo, 1 FTR & 2-3 CASs or TACs, my feeling is that while it looks more real life, I mean wasn't that what medium ranged fighter escorts/fighter-bombers were for. If the AI does it then my feeling is that it might not be the best optimally, although your right to avoid too big a stacking penalty especially for air-to-ground bombers. In HOI2 Medium Fighters (FTR) were the most effective IIRC, but now in HOI3 its the INTs that work out best to rule the skies.

You might be better off building more CAS so you have 3x3 Wings of them, have your 12 TACs in 3 or 4 groups of pure TAC and build more INTs on top of the ones you originally start with. They are cheaper (less IC/MP outlay and require less Supply & Fuel consumption) than Multi-role FTRs and you are best off employing them in pure Wings, preferably at least in Wings of 3 than 2 IME. I think trying to use INTs in bomber Wings as escorts is a waste since individually they are not effective enough with the bombers in air-to-air combat (interception) and don't have much ground attack firepower (SA & HA) to be worthwild in that role on as regular basis and just as often as the more effective bombers. Better using INTs or FTRs if you really want to have them for their greater range in groups of their on Air Superiority missions to cover your bombers since you'll do it better that way.

Why give the other areas to the AI, Diplomacy, Politics and Intelligence. They don't require that much effort and input really. You are much better off setting these areas up properly initially and controlling these other areas since the AI isn't the best at handling these things than the human player, you. I mean why don't you give your Navy to the AI to control as Germany, per che?

I also don't recomend give your Theatre Commands to the AI, Army Groups the highest may be but not Theatres, IMHO.

116th Panzer Division in 1938 instead of 1944, lol. Tell me do you still create the 16th "Grayhound" Motorised Infantrie Division?:rofl:

 

[plasticpanzers]

actually i am in 1941 right now. the post needs to catch up! lol! I have already used the aircraft in combat in their current configuration. Since neither Poland nor France has anywhere near as many aircraft as i do it seems to work well. assigning the air groups to different levels of the command structure (CAS to Army and TAC to Army group) appears to keep
too many aircraft attacking one area. the Minimal fighter escort seems to
work well now with the lack of opposition. Once i get into Russia it will be
a bit harder with the lack of airfields and the greater ground area the luft-
waffe must cover. I do now have groups of independent x2 fighters that
are operating as air superiority at Theatre level.

Since the issues on lack of AI compitence are well known (I have been playing
games since it came out) to even the playing field I deliberatly place myself
as a chief of staff/chief of production rather than leader of the country. By
allowing the AI to run diplomacy I am a bit at the mercy of its operations and
its equal to what the other AI are doing with their nations. It actually runs
a fairly compitent game. I had a failure of Finland in joining Germany vs the
USSR so far but thats a variance that becomes a challenge to me. By being
"godlike" in our control of the games nations we run everything. I think its
far more fun to relinquish control and have to operate at a level just below
the Civilian leadership.

Politics and Intell are the same and are working fairly well on their own. By
running everthing there is no hidden challenges to appear and letting the AI
run the upper level of the nation i have a greater challenge in the game by
having to counter its mistakes on the battlefield.

I deliberatly allow the AI to run the theatre battles. It has done well but
not perfect. This is wonderfuly realistic (Clauswitz's friction). In previous
games over the last few weeks the invasion of France, Denmark, Norway
(with a bit of human help to get there properly! LOL),Poland are quite real.
As a real and most senior commander in an army you do not personally run
each unit (hitler being a bizzare and failed example of somebody who tried!).

My theatre commands have never failed in completing their campaigns. I
supply the support and defence troops, small battle help, some air missions,
paratroop use, and naval invasions. Other than that 100+ German divisions
on campaign run under their own commanders as it should be. There are
fighting other AI run armies so the battlefield is a level playing field but where
my decisions on research, army composition, air units, command setup make
the difference on how the battle is won.

The German navy tries too much with too little. I do not build any BBs and
the Hipper is the "Pride of the Fleet" and largest ship built. It is, to me, a
waste of ICs to create a fleet that cannot really win against the allied navies.
as an example when overrunning Norway i assigned the 3 S-Boats (PT Boats)
to the Norway invasion command. I had hoped they would attack shipping
going to the survivors in N. Norway but instead they sail into the Irish Sea
between Ireland and England and are promply sunk. Waste. The AI cannot
handle proper sea battles but the German navy is too small and it costs too
much to build it up just to watch it be ground down quickly by the RN. All
i need the navy for is to secure the Baltic so i can sieze and hold Norway,
help Finland, and harrass the USSR navy. Sealion to me is a waste and unreal as the AI currently does not properly protect England and doing the
invasion of England is taking advantage of a game glitch.

In my current 1941 game my Paris HQ has sent 2 Corps to assit the Med
HQ in overrunning Yugoslavia even tho ALL the border areas from Swiss to
Russia are under Med control! The assist was suprising and gratefully recieved!

No 16th Mot div yet. Actually the 16th ID was split into two components,
the 16 Panzer and the 16th Motorized. it was not til 1944 when exhausted
and shot to pieces the 16th mot (pz Gren) was sent to France to be combined
with the 179th Reserve Panzer div and renamed the 116th Panzer rather than
the 16th Panzer which was still on the rolls and one of the two 'kids' of the
original 16th ID

basically by running a game at the level i am and not controlling all operations
everywhere I find the game more surprising and challenging. The game is not
at my beck and call to do what i want all the time, I am at its call.

 

[plasticpanzers]

1939 update..WAR! One short campaign...

I have assigned both German Army groups under the Berlin Theatre command. The AI
will run the campaign on its own. I do mark out the objectives tho (Warsaw and the
cities with VPs or airfields and Danzig). Each Army group has 1 army with 2 Panzer
Corps and 2 Infantry Corps. 2-3 other Inf Corps are assigned to each Army Group.
Also all TAC is divided up between both Army groups and all CAS to both Armys. hit
the button go and...

Campaign kicks off well with penetrations all along the line. Danzig falls within a few
days. Polish units move into E. Prussia. I have reinforced EP with only one Garrison
brigade in Koningsberg as well as adding an artillery brigade to each of the 3 divisions.

E. Prussia will draw off Polish forces which is fine for me. Other than Memel and the
port at Koningsberg all other terrain is expendable and will be retaken later.

Air units as assigned work well with some seperation with up to 3 different targets of
ground attack being done a day. air units loose ORG i think too easily tho.

My Med Theatre and the Slovak Army press up thru lower Poland. I find that theatres
will assist one another at times. nice to see that happen! Happens later in 1941 in
Yugoslavia.

In the West only minimal attempts at attacking the West wall. easily repulsed. various
small air battles with my Western Fighter Command laying air supression over Metz and
the Allied air force keeping them well in check.

Whole campaign only lasts 4 weeks until the Russians to the East and the fall of Warsaw
forces their "fight on" choice.

I found the air units give (as always) the edge needed to tip alot of battles but that
even with max reserarch into maintaining ORG they loose alot very quickly against foes
with minimal air defences and aircraft. Sometimes a long haul to get them back into
full strength or near so.

Against an almost total foot army the German mot/armor units are devestating. Inf that
have had time to get an assault gun brigade during the fighting even more so.

No need to risk any fleet units there and kept them all in port. Submarines did well by
using one each in each fleet and placing them far enough apart it is hard for Allied ASW
forces to engage them easily. Did loose 2 but have sunk alot of transports and escort
destroyers.

Whole campaign cost minimal casualties and gave units some expierence. Still slowly
upgrading armor now going into PZIIIGs.

The AI handled the entire fight on its own. Although i will find later on in Russia in 1941
that you need to have at least 3 Army Groups operating on AI rather than only the one
Theatre to cover that much ground but both in Poland and France Theatre AI command works quite well leaving me with production and organization and support to control.

After the Campaign in Poland i have created a new Theatre (Western Front) and have
assigned both Armies to it leaving only one Armee Group with about 4 Corps to watch
the Soviet/German border and 3 more with the Med Theatre the Southern flank.

Moving all Forces West to the Netherlands/Belgium border. With the current AI it loves
to get caught up into major battles of attrition with fortified areas like Metz. The first
few games i played i must have lost 100,000 men or so in the fighting around there when
the AI was in command but i did not want to run the war controlling all units.

I found that i could give the Bitburg Theatre command a Defend order and assign it up
thru Aachen. The new Western Front theatre was marked only for the provinces North
of Aachen to the coast and only 1 province deep. In the battle when the Western
Front would advance i would assign the captured provinces along the Maginot Line to
the Bitburg command which would slip divisions around and although it would launch
some attacks and actually breach the Maginot line later on in 1940 it would mostly screen Metz and the entire Maginot line and act as the hinge the Western Front thearte
would swivel on and move into France off of.

The rest will wait for my 1940 report as for now the German army is marching to the
low countries....

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Moved to AARland