Geographic hiccups!
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yep, believe me, I know the amount of work behind just making few provinces look accurate (not speaking of all the other work behind propper CK2 province), so I understand that everything isn't perfect now...
and no, I don't want perfect borders with perfect everything, I only wanted to make them look little less awful
keep up the great work you're doing
I'd say they have different cultures for them. Look at the baltics: Pommeranian, Prussian, Lithuanian, Letgallian, Ugric Baltic, Finnish, all seperate cultures. This promises that the Balkans will be many-cultured, as it should be.
The existence of multiple Baltic cultures doesn't say anything about the Southslavs. CK1 had all those except the Pommeranians, but only one massive Southslavic blob.
The issue wasn't that Paradox actually liked conflating all the South Slavs with the Albanians and Romanians, or that it's actually harder to figure out whether a province/person should be Serb vs. Vlach then any other culture. The issue is that every debateable decision in that region is actually debated. Many decisions that non-Balkanish-types consider non-debateable are debated.
For example the exact ethnic status of Slavs in the Republic of Macedonia is extremely debatable. Serbs say their Serb. Bulgarians say they're Bulgarian. They tend not to say much, because as part of ending their war with their ethnic Albanian compatriots they agreed to be neither Serb nor Bulgarian but Macedonian. If Paradox comes down on one side or the other of this debate the other two sides will flock to these boards, obscure maps in hand, implying Paradox is just a cog in the anti-Bulgar/Serb/Macedonian conspiracy. If they make the mistake of siding against the Serbs they will encounter the word "Serbophobia."
It should tell you a lot about how reasonable debate is in that region that a) some idiot decided anti-Serb bias has historically been just as evil as Anti-Semitism, b) his countrymen take it seriously, and c) his case that Serbophobia is truly vile is undermined solely by the fact that the most prominent alternative is ethnic cleansing.
Compare this to what would happen if the Danes installed the game and discovered that all of Schleswig-Holstein was ethnic German according to Paradox, or the Dutch finding out that Paradox's historical researchers put the ethnic border with Germany two provinces west of where they think it should be. They'd mod it, maybe make a polite request for a change on the forum, and if an ethnic Dane or Dutchman was a major player in the inevitable Improvement Project he'd arrange for it to be changed.
The inclusion of Croatian seems to indicate Paradox has changed it's mind on these issues, and has concluded that a) Balkan issues are less emotional now then they were five years ago, so the forum debate won't get out of hand, b) they have enough historical evidence to win any debate on their decisions or c) the ban-hammer works.
But it could also indicate they've only decided to remove Croats from the famous Southslavic blob, but they still don't want to deal with the contentious issues of where Albanian, Bulgar, and Serb culture borders end.
Nick
How do you decide who rules a province that historically was divided in two?
For example Halland, was during most of the games timespan divided in North Halland
and South Halland. And sometimes North Halland was a free county, sometimes it was
Swedish and sometimes Danis. The same for South Halland (only it was Danish longer)!
For example Halland, was during most of the games timespan divided in North Halland
and South Halland. And sometimes North Halland was a free county, sometimes it was
Swedish and sometimes Danis. The same for South Halland (only it was Danish longer)!
This thread is not about the cultural set-up, so please continue that discussion in another thread.
I guess it would be based on whichever lord was the most wealthy, powerful or influential.
BTW, comparing the map in my original first post of this thread with a 'real' map, I just noticed that Samos island is actually there. It is merged with the Ephesos province making it look like there is a peninsula southeast of Chios (bottom right of the screencap). It shouldn't be too difficult to separate it from the mainland and united it with Chios in one province, but nevertheless, I believe the province should be renamed 'Chios' anyways.
@KING,
Please can I also get an answer on my Chios/Samos Corfu/Cephalonia question that started this thread?
@KING,
Please can I also get an answer on my Chios/Samos Corfu/Cephalonia question that started this thread?
With helpful comments like this, we can't help but improve!
If you are talking about province borders etc, do you have anything more useful to add? If you just mean the look of the map, we think it looks pretty good and don't plan to change it much.
The game will be fun and thats all that matters, it doesn't matter if some random little province is slightly incorrect, 99% of the players won't have even heard of many of the previously mentioned provinces so in the end it doesn't matter.
As long as its fun
As long as its fun
Pretty much this. Obviously I'd like to see all provinces depicted correctly, even the ones I've never heard of, but if PI get short on time/manpower then gameplay stuff has to take priority.
I agree, it looks very pretty indeed. The only concern I have is this rotating camera option. Any chance of having a button to lock the camera in place? The number of times I've accidentally rotated the camera in other games when I haven't wanted to is unreal....
I'm assuming (hoping) that many of these are just alpha placeholder colors. I'd wager that the devs know it's not a good idea for every independent ruler in a certain area to have the same map color. The same problem exists in Ireland, southern Italy, pagan Finland, and Wales.
Lake Peipus, famous for the Battle on the Ice, where the Teutonic Knights' eastern advance was halted by Nevsky. I can't tell at this zoom level if that kinda-blop in the border is Peipus or artifacting from the zoom and JPG formatting.
With helpful comments like this, we can't help but improve!
If you are talking about province borders etc, do you have anything more useful to add? If you just mean the look of the map, we think it looks pretty good and don't plan to change it much.
I'll add some helpful cents then:
1. The map's texture and artwork is gorgeous as far as I am concerned. As has been noted by others some province borders seem a bit too straight or out of place, but generally the map is very pleasing to the eye.
2. Obviously one eternal nit-pick will always be the amount of provinces. We play a game about provinces, provinces are perhaps the main content to be had (outside characters and diplomacy) and obviously we want more content.
3. I still don't agree with the way the map is done. Europe is simply put too big. If you are having trouble placing cities and such in the right places it might, logically speaking, be because the foundation of the map is wrong. If you have a base where the river Volga is forced to be shorter than it is compared to its surroundings, or the Danube or whatever, locations that you locate by orienting from this river will also end up wrongly. And so on. All I am saying is that I belive that you could tackle many obstacles, especially with those of people telling you that things are not in their right places, by simply using a map that is right from the start. And it always - always - irks me to see Sicily in the middle between Cyrenaica and Tunisia, or the Caucasus being completely wrong because the Caspian and Black Seas are not in the right place compared to eachother. Or how the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are completely off. And so on.
I'm sure there supposed to be a lake (or two) in between Estland/Livland (can't read out which one is it) and Novgorod.
devs, for all that is holy, please change byzantium color to purple!
thanks
Seconded. Byzantium can't not be purple, it's just wrong! You wouldn't make England yellow or France green, would you?
England obviously supposed to be red, and france blue. What is your prefered color for Byzantium?
In the current build there is. Poland, boheima and baltic region was recently updated.
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