Genetic Engineering too Expensive now?

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Daimonin

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So true. The science cost is too damn high. Whats the first thing any sensible race would try to do with genetic engineering? Why, how about remove our unfortunate short life span?

Even with only two planets to my name, it still took around 300 months. That's 25 years of ingame time where I had no soc research going, and had to limit my expansion, not to mention the sacrifices of only having 2 planets by the time I got to that tech level.
 
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Beyond Disbelief

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Other than RP purposes, where efficiency is thrown out of the window, why would you modify your entire racial pop?

I recently had problem with getting migration treaties for my xenophile due to the habitation requirements, so I just gene modded 2 planets to get the other two hydrospheres covered and voila. I get to have my xenophilia, colonize all planets, and save time on gene mod.
 

Daimonin

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Well there's also that tiny problem that it's REALLY hard to get a lvl 5 anything, when your leaders are "venerable" at 50. Just the science anomalies that need a lvl 5 scientist that go to waste, when your scientists usually die of old age half way through lvl 4, and the ones that make it to 5 can barely get to 1 anomaly before dying.

Yeah short life is a disadvantage, but the whole point of gene modding is to engineer away evolutionary oversight. Hence, species with short lifespan, makes sense to try and extend that lifespan when the tools become available. And yes, RP purposes too, because if we are not at least doing SOME level or RP we might as well be playing with spreadsheets.
 
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TheDeadlyShoe

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I think the whole point is that you're supposed to grow gene modded populations normally.

Wouldn't mind an endgame tech that drastically reduces the cost so you can do whole-species genemodding though.
 
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I am Sovereign

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Gene mod 1 pop at a time on a Gaia world and after 8 times, you can colonize any world at max habitability.

I think the whole point is that you're supposed to grow gene modded populations normally.

Wouldn't mind an endgame tech that drastically reduces the cost so you can do whole-species genemodding though.

Seriously guys how slow do you colonize if there is anything left to colonize at the point you can gene modify your race. Usually at that point you colonized everything within your border range either with conquered xenos/primitives/migrated xenos or robots.

Or do you play all with 500% slider of habitable worlds?
 
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The Founder

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Gene mod 1 pop at a time on a Gaia world and after 8 times, you can colonize any world at max habitability.
That is a very good idea actually. Wish Gaia or comparable was not quite as rare as it is.

I think the whole point is that you're supposed to grow gene modded populations normally.
But that has two problems:
1. We would need a way to "single out" a specific pop for the modification. No point making the whole planet incormfortable just to get one colonist (wich we will return to normal afterwards anyway).
2. Terraforming is alredy that lategame approach. Wich leaves Gene Modding in the "colonise now, to adapt the species later" territory.
If anything I think they wanted to prevent it being used exactly this way.

Seriously guys how slow do you colonize if there is anything left to colonize at the point you can gene modify your race. Usually at that point you colonized everything within your border range either with conquered xenos/primitives or robots.
Droids are not effective colonists before Synths, as a explained in detail above. So not an option.

And you might not have the proper species around that has acceptable Traits. And whose government has migration friendly Ethos. And then there is the problem that the others side might not have planets for your pops either. Or you might be Xenophobe all along (GE modded primary species has much less penalty then fully alien species).



One Idea I have been mulling about for a while is what I call "Trait Templates". Basically Genemodding would be a two step process:
Step 1. Create the Genetic/Trait Template.
Step 2. Apply Genetic/Trait template to a lof of pops.
Optional Step 3: Allow your scientists to extract another species traits into a Template. Including the ones that Automodded themself via Environmental Adaptation.

Step 1 would allow to include negative traits or even upgrade positive ones. While it can be priced to make it prohibitively expensive early game.
Step 2 could then scale with the game size.
 
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Geoarrge

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One Idea I have been mulling about for a while is what I call "Trait Templates". Basically Genemodding would be a two step process:
Step 1. Create the Genetic/Trait Template.
Step 2. Apply Genetic/Trait template to a lof of pops.
Optional Step 3: Allow your scientists to extract another species traits into a Template. Including the ones that Automodded themself via Environmental Adaptation.

That would be preferable, I think. The initial development of a new template could have a high but flat cost that only applies the first time. Any subsequent genemodding projects that use the same template should be relatively inexpensive, though that portion of the cost should of course be scaled.
 

Foefaller

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Other than RP purposes, where efficiency is thrown out of the window, why would you modify your entire racial pop?

I recently had problem with getting migration treaties for my xenophile due to the habitation requirements, so I just gene modded 2 planets to get the other two hydrospheres covered and voila. I get to have my xenophilia, colonize all planets, and save time on gene mod.

Main reason is for leadership related traits (usually lifespan related traits) to propagate into your leader pool. As long as one unmodded pop exists, none of the leaders for your primary species will have any traits you've added, especially if it's a hereditary autocracy and/or xeno leadership isn't possible.

That being said. doing it all at once is a bit silly. Better to do it one world at a time.
 

The Founder

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Regarding Tomb Worlds:
I made a test and the Adapted Spieces did indeed bug out, but nothing like previus itterations.
However, Tomb World Habitability is no longer strickly nesseary. There is a new tech that gives +40% Tomb World Habitability. With only +10% more you are already past the Adaptation Treshold. In total 60% Habitability can be archieved on Tombworlds using passive bonuses from tech alone.
 
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mudcrabmerchant

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Genetic engineering should be more universally useful. I'd prefer it if the cost rapidly scaled with how much you were changing. The first gene point would basically be a free gimme, an absolute no-brainer for any species that discovers the technology. The second gene point should be around current levels of cost. And all future gene points after that should be 50-100% more expensive than current levels, but never increasing beyond that no matter how many you unlock.

Changing climate preference should cost a point (after all, it's far more of a change to survive in regular sub-zero temperatures as it is to make you more friendly...), and you should be allowed to remove negative traits for the same cost as adding positive ones. We should also be able to modify individual pops, or even the pseudo-pops on board specific colony ships.

Overall, this allows you to easily prepare colonists for any climate type, but includes a downside over using xenos or robots in that your modified colonists can't use their gimme gene point to upgrade or remove a trait.
 

Beyond Disbelief

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Genetic engineering should be more universally useful. I'd prefer it if the cost rapidly scaled with how much you were changing. The first gene point would basically be a free gimme, an absolute no-brainer for any species that discovers the technology. The second gene point should be around current levels of cost. And all future gene points after that should be 50-100% more expensive than current levels, but never increasing beyond that no matter how many you unlock.

This suggestion seems to be operating on a lot of implied features that do not yet exist. Are you suggesting that there should be more than 2 gene trait points, and redesign the entire system to place more emphasis on it by making trait points more evailable?

Changing climate preference should cost a point (after all, it's far more of a change to survive in regular sub-zero temperatures as it is to make you more friendly...), and you should be allowed to remove negative traits for the same cost as adding positive ones. We should also be able to modify individual pops, or even the pseudo-pops on board specific colony ships.

Climate adaption part always made me wondered if its WAD. If WAD, then we should be able to gene mod without checking trait points as pre-requisite given that it currently costs no points.

Your second request already exists exactly as you described it.

I'm not entirely sure I'd like to see micro-level of genetic engineering on a per pop basis, it deviates from the focus of the game IMO. If it were to get implemented, I'd imagine it should be a rare tech with high research costs and at that point, why would you bother?

Overall, this allows you to easily prepare colonists for any climate type, but includes a downside over using xenos or robots in that your modified colonists can't use their gimme gene point to upgrade or remove a trait.

I'm not able to follow you on the last part of this sentence.
 

mudcrabmerchant

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This suggestion seems to be operating on a lot of implied features that do not yet exist. Are you suggesting that there should be more than 2 gene trait points, and redesign the entire system to place more emphasis on it by making trait points more evailable?

This, exactly. Massive genetic engineering should be a viable end-game alternative to replacing everything with synths.

Your second request already exists exactly as you described it.

Well, I never actually use genetic modification because of the prohibitive cost compared to conquering new species. I learned all the rules once, and I think I got this mixed up with not being able to add new negative traits to unlock more positive points.

I'm not entirely sure I'd like to see micro-level of genetic engineering on a per pop basis, it deviates from the focus of the game IMO. If it were to get implemented, I'd imagine it should be a rare tech with high research costs and at that point, why would you bother?

One might, for example, want to engineer some pops for research, and others for credits or minerals. At the very least, we should be able to engineer a pop specifically for colonization BEFORE we land on the new world.

I'm not able to follow you on the last part of this sentence.

I mean that, in the system I'm proposing, there's only a token cost for modifying pops by one gene point. That "gimme" point can be used to make a pop more generally useful, or it can be used to adapt a pop to another climate type, but without providing a buff to utility.
 
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iniudan

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T2 Robots (Droids) can colonise, but have downsides:
They can not grown thier own "food" effectively, nor the one of normal pops. And they are bad at anything Science too (while still giving you all the penalties).

Actually the negative for energy is only 20% with droid, so since power plant produce more then a farm, don't cost maintenance and can be shared to all your planet, using a droid on a power plant is still better then a farm, so they effectively growth their own food better then fleshbag.
 

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Actually the negative for energy is only 20% with droid, so since power plant produce more then a farm, don't cost maintenance and can be shared to all your planet, using a droid on a power plant is still better then a farm, so they effectively growth their own food better then fleshbag.
There is a resource that adds +20% Food. Nutrient replication adds another +25%.
Happiness and Slavery both add to Food production as well and Droids can not use either.
Another issue is the fixed growth of 30/pop. While it is better later in the development of the colony, early on 120 months to get to 5 pops is a drag.

And if you ever run out of power, thier production drops by another -50%. So you might end up in a bottomless pit.
 

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Gene mod 1 pop at a time on a Gaia world and after 8 times, you can colonize any world at max habitability.

It's not 1 pop at a time unless you specifically force it to be so by only having 1 pop there at a time. You can only gene mod whole planets. Which still takes like 15 years.

About robot pops, there's also the base food production from planetary capitals to consider. Late game migration can also fill up a planet in a fraction of the time it would actually take growing or even building robot pops.

Though energy has a higher base production, gets a bonus from the hub, could also benefit from individualist ethos if you didn't go collectivist to kill your own pop, and you can ignore both the food production tech as well as the repeatable one.