Genetic Engineering too Expensive now?

[The Founder]

In the current itteration of the game, Genetic Engineering is expensive. Indeed it costs the following soceity reserach:
400 points, even if you do not spend any trait points (like only changing habitability)
+100 points for every trait point spent
Times the number of affected pops.

So even a miniscule Size 10 planet will clock in easily at 4000 Soceity mid game, just for a habitability switch.
Even if you got 100 Society income, that would still be 40 months (3.5 years) worth of reserach. And you are unlikely to only have 1 size 10 planet with people to mod on to begin with.

I am doing this with 2 Planets, going from Ocean to Tropical preference +1 Trait (12500 Reserach), with 105 income and +46% reserach boost (6% Skill, +10% Biology with proper choose research*, +5% Adminsitrative AI, +30% Society Reserach Grants, -5 Quarantine).
And it still takes me 82 months.

*Switching active research from Terraforming to Engos Vapor means that I get that bonus, somehow...


As I see it, there is a basic "Triumvirate" of Colonisation approaches:
Terraforming
Genetic Engeenering
Adaptability Traits

Terraforming adapts the planet to the species.
Genetic Engineering adapts the species to the planet
Adaptability Traits shortens the discrepancy, but is more an early game bonus (too expensive to mod in even basic, impossible to upgrade).

Terraforming was made lower tier, to make it more competitive to GE.
Now GE was also made much more expensive, to make Adaptable more usefull.
But as a result, GE might be overpriced. The base price in particular seems to high for me. Any thoughts on the mater?

 

[Pyramid_Head]

I never used it before, when costs rising up to 10000+ I simply think wasting so much research is not worth +5% happiness or habitability.

 

[I am Sovereign]

Yes before it was too cheap now its too god dam high. Totaly overnerfed.

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

In the current itteration of the game, Genetic Engineering is expensive. Indeed it costs the following soceity reserach:
400 points, even if you do not spend any trait points (like only changing habitability)
+100 points for every trait point spent
Times the number of affected pops.

So even a miniscule Size 10 planet will clock in easily at 4000 Soceity mid game, just for a habitability switch.
Even if you got 100 Society income, that would still be 40 months (3.5 years) worth of reserach. And you are unlikely to only have 1 size 10 planet with people to mod on to begin with.

I am doing this with 2 Planets, going from Ocean to Tropical preference +1 Trait (12500 Reserach), with 105 income and +46% reserach boost (6% Skill, +10% Biology with proper choose research*, +5% Adminsitrative AI, +30% Society Reserach Grants, -5 Quarantine).
And it still takes me 82 months.

*Switching active research from Terraforming to Engos Vapor means that I get that bonus, somehow...


As I see it, there is a basic "Triumvirate" of Colonisation approaches:
Terraforming
Genetic Engeenering
Adaptability Traits

Terraforming adapts the planet to the species.
Genetic Engineering adapts the species to the planet
Adaptability Traits shortens the discrepancy, but is more an early game bonus (too expensive to mod in even basic, impossible to upgrade).

Terraforming was made lower tier, to make it more competitive to GE.
Now GE was also made much more expensive, to make Adaptable more usefull.
But as a result, GE might be overpriced. The base price in particular seems to high for me. Any thoughts on the mater?

I think you probably have to more or less forget your original planets in terms of genemodding and focus your efforts on new and growing planets.

Personally, I use the low cost terraforming option to standardize my empire into 3 types (eg. Continental, Arid, Tundra)

GE again mainly for new planets. Maybe it could make sense to do already developed planets if you heavily specialize them but otherwise the payback time seems too long to be economically viable.

 

[I am Sovereign]

I just hate terraforming. It shows up imo still far to late. I usually have everything already colonized when it pops up to being researched. And abandoning a full grown planet just to terraform it and recolonize it? No thank you thats not effective it would need a hundred years to pay out and make a income return.

 

[GamingHUD]

Manual genetic engineering has become a late game thing, once the essentials are well out of the way, to fine tune species potential to the max.

If I want to gene mod for habitability now, I'll set up my species to trigger the random gene modding event from epigenic triggers. Then combine with habitability tech.

 

[Magdaki]

I find it to be pretty close to right. It should be a bit lower, but not by very much, maybe 5-10%.

 

[Aries666]

The cost isn't that bad you just have to plan ahead a bit and try to only gen mod the first pop to go into a new climate type.

 

[The Founder]

If I want to gene mod for habitability now, I'll set up my species to trigger the random gene modding event from epigenic triggers. Then combine with habitability tech.

Does the Environmental Adaptation Species now count as a proper Subspecies? Or still a completely different one?

By the way, I checked the Event just now.
In 1.4.1 it set to below 50% habitability/happiness. It is still limited to only once per Empire.
But it does also include rare types like Tomb Worlds. Personally I would save it for that, especially with the way Uplifting works now.

The cost isn't that bad you just have to plan ahead a bit and try to only gen mod the first pop to go into a new climate type.

That does not feel like it's purposs in teh game.
Terraforming right now requires you to not colonise right now. To terraform and colonise later. It is a longterm plan. Unless you got the T2 Terraforming tech, wich is another story altogether.
Genetic Engineering is all about colonising now (even if not ideal). To adapt the species later.

Right now GE is the same longterm planning as Terraforming.

 

[ORCACommander]

I currently think GE is a bit broken. It does not allow me to fully play god. I get having a point system to keep things balanced but if a species hits 0 available after modding I can never adjust that species again which is stupid. Also i can not balance things out with negative traits again. worst part is I may only want to edit a single pop, not the whole damn planet

 

[GamingHUD]

Does the Environmental Adaptation Species now count as a proper Subspecies? Or still a completely different one?

By the way, I checked the Event just now.
In 1.4.1 it set to below 50% habitability/happiness. It is still limited to only once per Empire.
But it does also include rare types like Tomb Worlds. Personally I would save it for that, especially with the way Uplifting works now.

Unfortunately I don't have any 1.4.x saves at the moment where it's happened, so I can't confirm or deny.

Tomb world seems like an interesting world to do it on though, albeit perhaps difficult to achieve the right conditions given the more narrow scope for the event in Kennedy.

 

[Endless Rain]

The environmental adaptation event is bugged on Tomb Worlds; it turns them into pops of the last species created in the game instead of a modified version of the same species. I got some of my pops on a Tomb World turned into Prethoryn one time, which was annoying considering how it causes the Prethoryn sound effects anywhere with a Prethoryn portrait visible.

(In case you were wondering, the Prethoryn have randomly generated traits. It gave my Prethoryn pops traits that were added by mods, which it wouldn't do if the Prethoryn had predefined traits.)

 

[The Founder]

Tomb world seems like an interesting world to do it on though, albeit perhaps difficult to achieve the right conditions given the more narrow scope for the event in Kennedy.

Using very Adaptive and Droids to colonise first (to build some initial buildings) it should be possible. But yes, getting this right is hard. You need either exactly 40% or 45% (as it only goes in steps of 5%).

The environmental adaptation event is bugged on Tomb Worlds; it turns them into pops of the last species created in the game instead of a modified version of the same species. I got some of my pops on a Tomb World turned into Prethoryn one time, which was annoying considering how it causes the Prethoryn sound effects anywhere with a Prethoryn portrait visible.

(In case you were wondering, the Prethoryn have randomly generated traits. It gave my Prethoryn pops traits that were added by mods, which it wouldn't do if the Prethoryn had predefined traits.)

Could it be you are talking about the 1.3 itteration? Totally different code. Used a basic switch...case to create the species, wich might result in no species being created at all (and just the last otherwise created one being used). A switch case that lacked Savanna and Alpine, by the way, causing the same bug on both of those types too.
The current one uses the simplest solution*:

    immediate = {
        planet = {
            owner = { set_country_flag = pop_modification }
            set_planet_flag = pop_modification
            create_species = {
                is_mod = yes
                name = this
                plural = this
                class = this
                portrait = this
                traits = {
                    trait = random_traits
                }
                homeworld = planet
            }
        }

However the Tomb World inhospitability might be set via a special secondary flag of some sort.

 

[The Founder]

Btb, this is how the special haitabiltiy traits look in code ("Stellaris\common\traits\" 00 habitability traits):

trait_pc_alpine_preference = {
    icon = "gfx/interface/icons/traits/trait_pc_alpine_preference.dds"
    modifier = {
        pc_alpine_habitability = @primary   
        pc_arctic_habitability = @secondary
        pc_tundra_habitability = @secondary
            
        pc_ocean_habitability = @tertiary
        pc_desert_habitability = @tertiary
        pc_tropical_habitability = @tertiary
        pc_continental_habitability = @tertiary
        pc_arid_habitability = @tertiary
        pc_savannah_habitability = @tertiary
    }
}
trait_pc_ai_preference = {
    icon = "gfx/interface/icons/traits/trait_pc_ai_preference.dds"
    modification = no
    modifier = {
        pc_ai_habitability = 1.0
        pc_desert_habitability = 0.01
        pc_tropical_habitability = 0.01
        pc_continental_habitability = 0.01
        pc_ocean_habitability = 0.01
        pc_arctic_habitability = 0.01
        pc_tundra_habitability = 0.01
        pc_arid_habitability = 0.01
        pc_savannah_habitability = 0.01
    }
}
trait_pc_nuked_preference = {
    icon = "gfx/interface/icons/traits/trait_pc_nuked_preference.dds"
    modification = no
    modifier = {
        pc_nuked_habitability = @primary
        pc_desert_habitability = @secondary
        pc_tropical_habitability = @secondary
        pc_continental_habitability = @secondary
        pc_ocean_habitability = @secondary
        pc_arctic_habitability = @secondary
        pc_tundra_habitability = @secondary
        pc_arid_habitability = @secondary
        pc_savannah_habitability = @secondary
        pc_alpine_habitability = @secondary
    }
}
trait_pc_gaia_preference = {
    icon = "gfx/interface/icons/traits/trait_pc_gaia_preference.dds"
    modification = no
    modifier = {
        pc_gaia_habitability = 1.0
    }
}
trait_pc_ringworld_habitable_preference = {
    icon = "gfx/interface/icons/traits/trait_pc_ring_preference.dds"
    modification = no
    modifier = {
        pc_ringworld_habitable_habitability = 1.0
    }
}

The comibnation of is_mod =yes and modification=no might break it for tomb worlds. But I really have to test that in more detail.

 

[Heliocon]

Not sure if it is the cost as much as it is the cost versus terraforming or vs using other species with migration. It should be a trade off, not an obvious single choice.

 

[Futharkk]

As I see it, there is a basic "Triumvirate" of Colonisation approaches:
Terraforming
Genetic Engeenering
Adaptability Traits

What about colonizing with Robots ? Is it viable to colonize unhospitable planets (i.e. deserts when your howeworld is tundra, and so on) with only robots ?

 

[I_am_Nemo]

What about colonizing with Robots ? Is it viable to colonize unhospitable planets (i.e. deserts when your howeworld is tundra, and so on) with only robots ?

You have to get to droids before colonizing with them. Droids will do poorly with science/energy, but good for minerals. If you want spaceports + mineral production, go for it. If/when you go synths, you can specialize their planets however, as they have + 20% to all.

 

[Aries666]

I currently think GE is a bit broken. It does not allow me to fully play god. I get having a point system to keep things balanced but if a species hits 0 available after modding I can never adjust that species again which is stupid. Also i can not balance things out with negative traits again. worst part is I may only want to edit a single pop, not the whole damn planet

This annoys me a lot because you can't even change climate preference after using up your trait points either.

 

[Endless Rain]

Could it be you are talking about the 1.3 iteration?

No; this happened in 1.4.1.

 

[The Founder]

What about colonizing with Robots ? Is it viable to colonize unhospitable planets (i.e. deserts when your howeworld is tundra, and so on) with only robots ?

T1 Robot can not colonise and bring only "meh" extra Minerals. Them not costing Food and thier fixed growth might be thier biggest advantage.

T2 Robots (Droids) can colonise, but have downsides:
They can not grown thier own "food" effectively, nor the one of normal pops. And they are bad at anything Science too (while still giving you all the penalties).

T3 Robots? They work. But are not so easy to get too as it seems. And not really an option for Spiritualists.

No; this happened in 1.4.1.

Okay, that could be troublesome. I am pretty sure it was intended to work with them. They threw out the switch...case jsut so it would not trip up over anything.