Generator districts meaningless for normal factions

[Sledjer]

So, a technician produces 4 energy, and each generator district houses 2 technicians.
On the other hand, a clerk produces 2 trade value, and each city district ( with unity choices ) houses 6 pops, and that allows for 6 clerks.
If you assume that on any generator world you are building the buildings for it, that comes out to 9.6 energy credits from generators, and 12 from cities. Is my math correct? If it is, why would you ever build generators when you can build cities instead?

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

So, a technician produces 4 energy, and each generator district houses 2 technicians.
On the other hand, a clerk produces 2 trade value, and each city district ( with unity choices ) houses 6 pops, and that allows for 6 clerks.
If you assume that on any generator world you are building the buildings for it, that comes out to 9.6 energy credits from generators, and 12 from cities. Is my math correct? If it is, why would you ever build generators when you can build cities instead?

You're getting less energy overall, but you're having to feed and give consumer goods to a lot less people.
It's also a lot quicker to fill those two jobs than to fill all the clerk jobs.

 

[Bouchart]

There are many bonuses to energy production but only a couple for trade value. Energy production is increased by stability, the physics techs including the repeatable one, and generally anything that gives +% resources from jobs which includes 2x the level of a governor if you have one. Trade value is affected by the Thrifty trait and possibly one other thing.

 

[AmpsterMan]

I find clerk jobs to be underwhelming, tbh. Technicians don't seem like much, but you can stack a lot of bonus production with them, so you get a nice energy income with it.

 

[Retry]

So, a technician produces 4 energy, and each generator district houses 2 technicians.
On the other hand, a clerk produces 2 trade value, and each city district ( with unity choices ) houses 6 pops, and that allows for 6 clerks.
If you assume that on any generator world you are building the buildings for it, that comes out to 9.6 energy credits from generators, and 12 from cities. Is my math correct? If it is, why would you ever build generators when you can build cities instead?

You're missing several things.

• City districts house 5 pops by default, you can get +1 from a tech and +1 from a tradition.
• City districts cost 500 minerals, resource districts cost only 300. (which would get you 2 research stations, for instance)
• City districts take 2x longer to build than resource districts. (480 days vs 240 days)
• City districts have 2 energy upkeep, resource districts have only 1 energy upkeep
• City district + Commercial Zone combo that you're proposing costs both 1 district slot AND 1 building slot.
  Just taking a generator district only costs 1 district slot, leaving the building slot available for something else.
• Commercial zones take 1 year to build (unimportant), costs 300 minerals (important), and require 2 energy upkeep (important).
• Technicians is a more "resource dense" job than clerks in terms of maximum energy output (4 energy/job vs 2 trade -> 2 energy/job)
  This is particularly important because pop growth is the biggest limiting factor to economic expansion until perhaps very late game.
• That theoretical strategy needs more pops, which means more food and more consumer good expenses to maintain a similar energy level.

I presume by "building the buildings for it" you mean the Energy Grid/Nexus? Lv.1 is +15% energy credits, and Lv.2 is +25% energy credits from techies. Neither of those would add up to 9.6 energy credits from gennies, though.

It's not possible for me to do a super in-depth analysis of this in the span of 15 minutes, but here's a very rudimentary one:

Energy districts has an upfront cost of 300 minerals, 1 district slot and 2 pops for +8 energy, for a net monthly resource transaction of +7 energy, -2 popsworth of maintenance (food and consumer goods) (which varies by living standard, chosen food policies, etc).

The proposed city-commerce combo has an upfront cost of 800 minerals, 1 district slot, 1 building slot and 6 pops for +12 trade value, for a net monthly resource transaction of +12 trade value, -4 energy, -6 popsworth of maintenance.

If trade is set to Wealth, that becomes a net resource transaction of +8 energy, -6 popsworth of maintenance.

The energy district route is more than 2x cheaper to set up, requires 3x less pops to fully man and so requires 3x less time to outfit, and has a 3x lower maintenance cost due to simply having 3x less pops to man, which means less supporting infrastructure needed to offset these costs (Consumer goods, Farms), which themselves require some energy input, mineral input, pop labor input, in addition to upfront costs of minerals, district slots and building slots.

Obviously the analysis is pretty limited (doesn't take into account limited Tech districts, the Stock Exchange building, the Energy Grids/Nexii, or effects of amenities), but it should be clear that cities doesn't handily beat generators in energy production.

There are many bonuses to energy production but only a couple for trade value. Energy production is increased by stability, the physics techs including the repeatable one, and generally anything that gives +% resources from jobs. Trade value is affected by the Thrifty trait and possibly one other thing.

Trade value is increased by stability.

 

[The Grumpy Buddha]

I'm hardly a pro at the new system, but so far, clerks getting jobs is a sign to me that it's time to upgrade a building to change those clerks to specialists.

 

[SirL]

You're missing several things.

• City districts house 5 pops by default, you can get +1 from a tech and +1 from a tradition.
• City districts cost 500 minerals, resource districts cost only 300. (which would get you 2 research stations, for instance)
• City districts take 2x longer to build than resource districts. (480 days vs 240 days)
• City districts have 2 energy upkeep, resource districts have only 1 energy upkeep
• City district + Commercial Zone combo that you're proposing costs both 1 district slot AND 1 building slot.
  Just taking a generator district only costs 1 district slot, leaving the building slot available for something else.
• Commercial zones take 1 year to build (unimportant), costs 300 minerals (important), and require 2 energy upkeep (important).
• Technicians is a more "resource dense" job than clerks in terms of maximum energy output (4 energy/job vs 2 trade -> 2 energy/job)
  This is particularly important because pop growth is the biggest limiting factor to economic expansion until perhaps very late game.
• That theoretical strategy needs more pops, which means more food and more consumer good expenses to maintain a similar energy level.

I presume by "building the buildings for it" you mean the Energy Grid/Nexus? Lv.1 is +15% energy credits, and Lv.2 is +25% energy credits from techies. Neither of those would add up to 9.6 energy credits from gennies, though.

It's not possible for me to do a super in-depth analysis of this in the span of 15 minutes, but here's a very rudimentary one:

Energy districts has an upfront cost of 300 minerals, 1 district slot and 2 pops for +8 energy, for a net monthly resource transaction of +7 energy, -2 popsworth of maintenance (food and consumer goods) (which varies by living standard, chosen food policies, etc).

The proposed city-commerce combo has an upfront cost of 800 minerals, 1 district slot, 1 building slot and 6 pops for +12 trade value, for a net monthly resource transaction of +12 trade value, -4 energy, -6 popsworth of maintenance.

If trade is set to Wealth, that becomes a net resource transaction of +8 energy, -6 popsworth of maintenance.

The energy district route is more than 2x cheaper to set up, requires 3x less pops to fully man and so requires 3x less time to outfit, and has a 3x lower maintenance cost due to simply having 3x less pops to man, which means less supporting infrastructure needed to offset these costs (Consumer goods, Farms), which themselves require some energy input, mineral input, pop labor input, in addition to upfront costs of minerals, district slots and building slots.

Obviously the analysis is pretty limited (doesn't take into account limited Tech districts, the Stock Exchange building, the Energy Grids/Nexii, or effects of amenities), but it should be clear that cities doesn't handily beat generators in energy production.

Trade value is increased by stability.

About the point that combo takes 1 district and 1 building slot, upgraded clerk building and city district (which gets bonuses from traditions too) can house and support the work of more people than any other combo. It is the whole point. Clerks provide amenities, no need for theatre buildings. Trade can be set to consumer good production, freeing up a whole lot of other building slots. It is not an early game building anyway, but its got its uses.

 

[TheDungen]

You also have to get that trade back to your capital. I find I use a lot of generator districts early on and then gradually switch over to city districts when I get more people.

 

[Promethian]

I'm hardly a pro at the new system, but so far, clerks getting jobs is a sign to me that it's time to upgrade a building to change those clerks to specialists.

This. Get your amenities from priests, doctors or entertainers (in this order based on availability). Clerks are the most inefficient job for producing resources on a per pop basis and pops are the most limited resource in the early game.

 

[Surimi]

Also, generator jobs benefit from tech. In fact, they benefit a lot from tech (50% increase with all techs researched). Long term, generators are far more efficient, with the trade off being that they give fewer pops and potentially fewer building slots.

But it depends. Authoritarian slave empires can make great use of slave-clerks, who cost no consumer goods and are very efficient. Empires with better living standards will probably be wanting to keep clerks to a minimum.

In fact, it's kind of weird how this works in practice. You would think egalitarians would be all about trade, but in practice they are much worse at it than authoritarians. There really ought to be a specialist tier trade job, even if it's locked behind a civic.

 

[Armed Avacado]

I find clerk jobs to be underwhelming, tbh. Technicians don't seem like much, but you can stack a lot of bonus production with them, so you get a nice energy income with it.

Keep in mind Trade Value has some bonus modifiers too but they're hidden because the tooltip needs to be updated. The final value, on the first page of your planet overview, labeled "from pop jobs" will show the the sum after all pop-specific modifiers are applied (such as Thrifty) but before planet-wide modifiers (which should be listed directly underneath.) Simply adding up the values from the jobs screen won't show these pop modifiers.

I still think technicians will get more modifiers though. Especially in slaver empire.

 

[Promethian]

There really ought to be a specialist tier trade job, even if it's locked behind a civic.

You mean the merchant? Located behind a civic, on the upgraded clerk buildings and as part of the prosperity tradition.

 

[Dunbal]

You would think egalitarians would be all about trade, but in practice they are much worse at it than authoritarians.

(Insert inappropriate political comment of your choice here)

 

[Incompetent]

But it depends. Authoritarian slave empires can make great use of slave-clerks, who cost no consumer goods and are very efficient. Empires with better living standards will probably be wanting to keep clerks to a minimum.

In fact, it's kind of weird how this works in practice. You would think egalitarians would be all about trade, but in practice they are much worse at it than authoritarians. There really ought to be a specialist tier trade job, even if it's locked behind a civic.

It's not just that Authoritarians can make use of slave-clerks; if you have Slaver Guilds and don't go for Domestic Servitude, then as your planets fill up, you're pretty much forced to use commercial zones all over the place, as otherwise it's difficult to continue to have 40%+ of all jobs be suitable for slaves.

Xenophile/Authoritarian is an interesting combo if you want to play a non-Megacorp, but still focus on trade as a source of income. Go Fanatic Xenophile, and you can strike commercial agreements with absolutely everyone for no influence cost.

You mean the merchant? Located behind a civic, on the upgraded clerk buildings and as part of the prosperity tradition.

Merchants are in the ruler stratum, which doesn't synergize with Egalitarian ethos. I think it would be better if specialist-level traders were provided by a building unlocked by a mid-game Society tech, and then the main job of ruler-tier Merchants was not to produce trade directly, but rather to provide a planet-wide buff to trade.

 

[zukodark]

If you focus a world on city districts and trade hubs you will very quickly find yourself at building cap. The main reason I find to do them is if you have an abundance of pops you need to get employed.

 

[Delthor]

Urban-based trade is much better at outputting energy per district, as you can have many more than two clerks per city district. Clerks also provide amenities, city districts can be built anywhere, and ecumenopolises are ridiculous at supporting an absurd number of pops, including clerks. Since city districts provide extra housing, they will often be a small presence on any colony whether you focus on them or not. Trade can also provide consumer goods or unity

The disadvantage of trade is that it's very inefficient per pop, and requires buildings to set up if you want to make use of the housing for trade purposes. If making a massive trade planet, rather than dispersing them in your large urban worlds, you are largely wasting the amenities, as they only have so much effect on resource ouput once maxed. You also have to have infrastructure to handle piracy.

Technicians put out significantly more energy per pop. They gain a lot more bonuses from technologies, so this goes up over time. Technicians also only take one building slot for the Energy Nexus if you want it, and the rest can be used for whatever you'd like. They're also simple and straight-forward to get the full benefit from them (amenities and trade require a bit more work).

The disadvantage is that it's much less efficient per district. You also need to find generator deposits to build them, (unless you build a ringworld, hive world, or machine world, which aren't limited). They only provide housing for the two jobs, so they won't help you get extra buildings as quickly or house pops employed in buildings. Energy's flexibility is limited by the market, while trade policies give trade more flexibility.

There are strengths and weaknesses for both, and deciding which to pursue isn't always an easy decision.

 

[Surimi]

You mean the merchant? Located behind a civic, on the upgraded clerk buildings and as part of the prosperity tradition.

As mentioned, merchants are actually ruler stratum.

And as you say, merchants are located on upgraded clerk buildings, meaning that in order to get them you kind of have to load your economy up with clerks anyway, at which point why not play authoritarian and use slaves or stratified society?

Again, my point is that it's weird that the authoritarian ethos is so much stronger at trade simply because the only freely accessible trade jobs are worker stratum.

 

[Devanor]

While I don't think generator districts are useless, I tend to build far less than I do in a gestalt empire thanks to all the energy credits I get from trade value.

I start building far more in mid and late game though due to my fleets demanding so much energy in upkeep

 

[SirL]

While I don't think generator districts are useless, I tend to build far less than I do in a gestalt empire thanks to all the energy credits I get from trade value.

I start building far more in mid and late game though due to my fleets demanding so much energy in upkeep

I thought you can't get trade in gestalt empires?

 

[Less2]

Other way around, clerks are meaningless for normal factions. Pop growth is the limitation to everything. Clerks are worse on a per-job basis than technicians, therefore the less you use the better you'll do. Getting jobs for your pops isn't hard until all of your worlds are at 100+ pops, at which point you've won the game anyway.