general ideas 2: army

[unmerged(114678)]

I know this has been discussed but i just wanna elaborate on this topic

I think the idea of using brigade/regiment (a standardized unit of 3-5000) is quite feasible with the new gameplay. i know there are ppl saying it might cause performance problems especially with countries with huge army. but HUGE HUGE armies were never really there until 1914. and wars prior were mostly colonial wars fought with only thousands of men (except the major ones fought in continental europe)

especially with empires like britain/france, players want to send troops to defend those colonies, but 10000 is quite a hefty portion out of that manpower pool.

as well, in the victorian era, there are way less types of units existed than there are in HOI3 era. with only infantry and some cavalry plus attachments, i would think sub-10000 size units would reflect history better.

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This leads to another thing in the army. Cavalry vs dragoons. I think dragoons should be eliminated

and thru researching, Cavalry would attain charactersitics of dragoons.
2 points:
1)Well, frankly, in V1 who would build cavalry after 1860 if they will get hosed down by gattling gun/machine gun in every fight

2)the distinction between cavalry and dragoons had really diminished during the victorian era. Historically, cavalrymen can simply do both....charge when needed, or fight dismounted in other situations. and over that era, cavalry and dragoons have simply become names with no real meaning.

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[Emperor Walter]

Perhps brigades, but not regiments. Having units smaller than 5,000 men will be to much of a micromanagment problem. I mean, I would rather not have to create 500 regiments, place them, and manage them frankly.

 

[abeth]

The entire British force in Africa during the period, even at its height, never much exceeded ten Vicky 1 divisions. And yet, when playing Vicky 1, you had to be prowling about with more than that simply because it was a vast expanse and you needed the separate units. It's unrealistic to have such large armies in Africa at all.

The only difference between 500 regiments and 100 divisions is the number of them you're placing, once they're placed it's simple to move them about just as before. It's hardly extra layers of micromanagement.

 

[unmerged(191951)]

Perhps brigades, but not regiments. Having units smaller than 5,000 men will be to much of a micromanagment problem. I mean, I would rather not have to create 500 regiments, place them, and manage them frankly.

i agree with you dude

 

[unmerged(81228)]

Perhps brigades, but not regiments. Having units smaller than 5,000 men will be to much of a micromanagment problem. I mean, I would rather not have to create 500 regiments, place them, and manage them frankly.

Why not having both? I would be glad to see divisions @ 10 000 men and regiments - like 3 000. In this case player would be able to keep divisions in Europe and have regiments in, for instance, Africa.

 

[Nooki]

Hey, why not use the HOI3 system and create your own divisions? Need a small infantery unit to keeps those africans in check? Create a one brigade or even regiment unit.. Need a big bulldozer unit to combat the evil french? Build a big evil 4 or 5 brigade unit...

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

Why not having both? I would be glad to see divisions @ 10 000 men and regiments - like 3 000. In this case player would be able to keep divisions in Europe and have regiments in, for instance, Africa.

Yeah. That would be optimal. Just add another unit to the drop-down list called "Infantry regiment". Equal to an Infantry division in every regard except that its strength is capped at 3000, you cannot attach brigades and it has such a cost that it would be cheaper to build one infantry division rather than three regiments.

 

[Zelvik]

Another possibility would be to add an additional funding slider to every unit, that sets the max. strengh of each unit. If that does not take too much additional processing power - though it probably shouldnt as its just one additional stat for each unit.

So you would have a national slider that determines how many people are attracted to the army, and you have a unit slider that determines how many people you can put into a single unit. Spanning the range between 2000 and 12000 soldiers this would allow units of regimental, brigade and divisional strength existing side by side at any given time. Troop moral, elan, organisation etc. should be determined by your national spending.

This system opens up some possibilities for tactics and strategies.

It allows both types of units small colonial or specialized units as well as units fitting the starting decades, as well as the larger divisional sized units at the tme of WW1 without the problems of having to mess around with regiments in 1914.

Another idea that would put a bit of meaning to smaller units would be a distance modifier to their upkeep costs. The farther away a unit from its home province, especially if it is overseas the more it costs. That would also give additional importance to colonial troops, as they would be massivly cheaper than their regular counterparts in their respective colonies. But it would also keep the powers from using massive amounts of colonial troops outside those colonies - unless they can afford it. Ships on the other hand should have a base of operation that determines their cost. So building naval bases around the globe becomes important to the world spanning empires beyond colonisation.

 

[byzantium43]

Smaller units is an absolute necessity, 10,000 is just way too clunky, and the people who say it will be too much micro must be on crack because there would be almost no appreciable difference since you can MERGE units. I've posted about this as has at least one other member of the community.

 

[von_Manstein11]

I think armies should take much more economically to maintain. I also think there should be a significantly higher performance boost from technology then Vicky 1. I felt there was not much difference from a 1836 infantry div to a 1935 one, yes it was better but only by a factor of 3. I would like to see it where a 1935 div has like 15 times the combat and also cost more then it does. This way you make nations militaries smaller, increase game performance and have a huge economic nightmare fighting wars. All things that were realistic in
the Industrial revolution.

Also, this would allow for smaller unit sizes like 2,500 or 5,000 man brigades to become strategically relevant.


P.S. I also want to see a manpower drain for logistical purposes that make it required to have (4 men per 1 soldier) on the field, that way it represents the economic impact of fielding armies. There is alot more to a military then just getting men for fighting. For every fighting man you need a team to provide him the tools to fight.

 

[nuarbnellaffej]

A simple solution would be to make it possible change the size of a division from say 10,000, to 5,000, and be able to switch it back and forth. That way you could downsize divisions to use flexibly as garrisons, or enlarge said garrisons so they could effectively serve as front line units.

All this jazz about brigades and regiments is fine for Hoi3, but waaay too much micro for Vicky imo, when you have so much other stuff to attend to.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

I have to say, if literally nothing was changed about land war in Vicky2, I wouldn't mind at all. Of course, war is an important part of the game, but there was nothing wrong with the old system.

 

[unmerged(81228)]

I have to say, if literally nothing was changed about land war in Vicky2, I wouldn't mind at all. Of course, war is an important part of the game, but there was nothing wrong with the old system.

I generally agree. However what I would like to have changed army menu (have it windows-explorer like), as I already mentioned here number of times.

Plus I wouldn't mind separate panzer divisions at the end of game... But it is not a must.

 

[Snaggleooo]

I generally agree. However what I would like to have changed army menu (have it windows-explorer like), as I already mentioned here number of times.

Plus I wouldn't mind separate panzer divisions at the end of game... But it is not a must.

Considering that the first armoured (Panzer) division was not created until the end of 1935 (and only in Germany), I don't think I'd be realistic. Only a squadron or platoon of tanks was attached to infantry during WWI for major battles. I didn't mind the V1 use of tanks as attachments, but I hope they can be detached and attached elsewhere in V2, like they were during the war.

 

[CaptRobau]

I agree, tanks should just be an attachment. But attachments need to be reassignable.

And if you want seperate tank divisions it's probably one of the easiest things to mod. Just need to merge the stats of the tank division with that of a unit like infantry.
I'd like seperate air units though, squadron size.

Regarding army size, the addition of a garrison unit should alleviate a lot of the problems. They'd be brigade sized, extremely slow to move and very defensible. That leaves the cavalry, irregular and infantry units (native quality) for colonial duty and a small standing quality army for the homeland.

I'm not opposed to units smaller than 10,000 (division) but it needs to be easy to merge and split groups of units, like in HOI2 and V1. HOI3 was too cumberstone in that area.

 

[unmerged(106433)]

The colonial wars definitely call for something smaller for policing purposes. Given the size of a corps, I am surprised I need one to police Zanzibar when a simple battalion could do the job.

The ability to merge units would seem appropriate. The worry about clicking around for 500 regiments vs. 100 divisions also seems a little off due to merging and the ability to just leave far more troops scattered around limiting the need for movement.

I like the added cost for being away from home as well as support troops. Extra costs could limit a lot of the early massive armies while putting pressure on to modernize. I also wonder if an upgrade slider and officers could be made available just like in HOI3.

But also forces should be more relevant to police functions by making rebels far more powerful. It seems quite pointless to have one 2000 man pop rebel when I have a 12000 man army in the province. It would make far more sense to have each angry pop from a category run a regional check for type of revolt. I have 30 Irish pops in Ireland and half of them have revolt risk. Each pop then contributes certain points to a potential rebellion (Irish revolt 30/60 points, farmer's revolt 2/60, poor revolt 15/60) and when it reaches a certain level all angry pops revolt at the same time.

It improves the odds of the rebels, creates ongoing security problems (like in real life), and means that a strong army can be tied down in a region and still lose.

 

[Foelsgaard]

Or perhaps small colonial brigades and regiments could be abstracted into some sort of Police-mechanism that don't require entire divisions. That way you don't need to station divisions all over the place but can have a few at strategic locations in case of war.