Genemoding improvements and his relation to terraforming.

[Garfazz Steamfang]

Hello guys!
Before i start i want to warn my readers than i'm not a native english writer and that i can be gramatically wrong so sorry for that.

It's my first post here and i don't know if a dev is going to see it one day but i really want to share with you my point of view about genemoding mechanics and his relation to terraformation:

So for being more clear i want to discuss about two points: genemoding and his possible improvements and terraformation mechanics linked to actual genemodding and why this is bad.

Genemoding room of improvements:

I always found genemoding in this game to be quite strange. No unique mechanics, and a climat preference change which can be used instead of terraformation. And that's why he is used most of the time: a cheaper and easier way to terraform by changing freely the climat preference on your specie.

Genomoding always have been quite dull and lack of flavor. Right now you only gain points to put more traits on your species and that it... But Bio ascension in Utopia added a quite interesting feature to the genemoding mechanics: New traits and improved traits. The problem is that, right now, the only unique traits bio ascension have (nerve stapple and delicious) are quite optional and create a problem: They are xénophobes oriented traits and slaves modifications... I mean it's quite good for a xenophobe empire but he would don't have the choice to run other ascension outside bio if he want to have full benefits of slavery. so first suggestion

- Why don't put delicious and nerve stapple in the regular gene modding tech? Like this xenophobe would be free to take another ascension path and have more use of xeno food. Not only those are not "powerfull" traits like erudite or robust but they lock the choice of ascension path to xenophobic empires. They must be putted in regular gene moding.

- In another hand genemoding need to have unique traits for having a real utility to use it and be quite unique. I don't have traits ideas right now but maybe you can put a trait like "photosynthesis" or something like that which reduce your food consumption. In a nutshell put some unique improvements traits that are linked to body biology and function (muscles, skeleton, brain...) which can be picked in the regular genemoding, adding more flesh to the tech and make it more usefull.

- The bio ascension path would add more unique traits than the genemoding one and more stronger traits (like it do actually): erudite, robust, fertile... Coz bio ascension path should be the top of evolution and should have stronger traits options, maybe a stronger version for venerable or very strong too. Like i said before "Nerve stapple" and "delicious" need to be moved to regular gene moding version for don't lock an anscension path for slavers but they can, and it will be welcome, add more uniques traits in the bio ascension path.

=> Those things would make genemoding a little more unique and usefull giving you access to unique traits at each level of it with big bonuses traits attached to Bio ascension path. That's what you expect from genemoding, make your specie faster, stronger, smarter.

Genemoding and his tedious relation to terraformation:

With 1.8 devs want to cut the number of habitable planets in two. That's a good thing. But terraformation would never be usefull if the actual genemoding remain. Let's sum up that, actually, genemoding is a faster, cheaper and most efficient way to change your specie climate preference than terraformation, making the terraformation feature, completly pointless (the high number of techs that increase habitability are for something too. Actually 5 techs which give you +5% each for a total of +20% more diplomacy tradition +15% and gases for a total of 35/40% bonus habitability). Those techs need to go if they want terraformation to be usefull and used for conveniance, for increase habitability and production, right now no one need terraformation with the high number of habitability bonus you can have. But speaking about the genemoding thing there is an awfull option related to it, and which one is the main reason that people use genemoding right now, the climat preference change.
Indeed you can with genemoding freely change the biome preference of you specie with cheaper cost and less time than a terraformation.

For making terraformation great again and use genemoding for what it need to be (specie traits improvements) they need to:

- Remove the climat preference change which have nothing to do in a DNA change thing. Biome preference is a think created by centuries of evolution and adaptation and you can change it in a couple of days... Removing this feature would not only make terraformation more usefull but separate the two things, which isn't the case right now coz players use massively genemoding as a substitution of terraformation. Removing biome change would make terraformation usefull for..terraformation and habitability and genemoding for enhance your species or modifiy species for nasty needs (delicious, nerve stapple).

- Genemoding without climat change still can be used to bypass terraformation needs for those who want to RP or not use terraformation. Indeed you can still pick extremely adaptative (which give a very strong bonus of +20% habitability) and take the robust talent when you have the bio ascension path (for a total of +30% habitability). This massive bonus of +30% in habitability would give you, according to the last diary which say that the lower level of habitability would be 20%, At last 50% of habitability on every planet, completly bypassing the need to terraform.

- Maybe extremely adaptable should be a trait unique to first level of genemoding (coz he is very strong) and which make that, when you go beyond and beyong in DNA manipulation you can be more adaptative : adaptative should be availible at specie creation, extremely adaptative should be availible with first level of genemoding and robust with the bio ascension path. I'm not sure on this point and if it would make the things great but it would offer a progression for thoses who want to bypass terraformation by investing in genemoding.

=> Those tweaks would make terraformation usefull for what it need to be: habitability and production when genemoding is used for improve species and offer an option to bypass the need of habitability but without completly steal the terraformation mechanic of biome change. Basically genemoding would still offer huge habitability bonuses for making all your planets bearable by your specie without the need of terraforming it. But for that they need to completly remove the habitability techs in the game and the climat change option gived by actual genemoding.


In a nutshell i just want to give two different mechanics for two differents techs: Terraforming must be used for planet habitability and production or growth needs when genemoding will focus on what a DNA manipulation should do: improve your specie by acting on a body level.

I hope you can understand why i try to explain guys. Feel free to discuss about it.

 

[Red192]

With 1.8 devs want to cut the number of habitable planets in two. That's a good thing. But terraformation would never be usefull if the actual genemoding remain. Let's sum up that, actually, genemoding is a faster, cheaper and most efficient way to change your specie climate preference than terraformation, making the terraformation feature, completly pointless (the high number of techs that increase habitability are for something too. Actually 5 techs which give you +5% each for a total of +20% more diplomacy tradition +15% and gases for a total of 35/40% bonus habitability). Those techs need to go if they want terraformation to be usefull and used for conveniance, for increase habitability and production, right now no one need terraformation with the high number of habitability bonus you can have. But speaking about the genemoding thing there is an awfull option related to it, and which one is the main reason that people use genemoding right now, the climat preference change.
Indeed you can with genemoding freely change the biome preference of you specie with cheaper cost and less time than a terraformation.

I disagree, I find that instead in the future it is actually easier to genetically modify billions of people who terraform billions of square miles of planet and Exa-liters of atmosphere

 

[Yukka]

It's my first post here and i don't know if a dev is going to see it

I think there's a lot of interresting elements in your thread to add some good modifications to the genetic modification, I'm sure the devs will find the good balance if they are seduced.

 

[Sibericus]

If you read the dev diary, you would know that the next one will talk about genemodding.

 

[Garfazz Steamfang]

If you read the dev diary, you would know that the next one will talk about genemodding.

We will see what they did to it. But judging by Wiz twitter them seems to stay with the climate preference change in genemoding... I'm just here to share my point of view and see if some of you see it like me. Coz i'm quite frustrated by the way the game use genemoding and terraformation right now.

 

[Red192]

Coz i'm quite frustrated by the way the game use genemoding and terraformation right now.

I repeat, it is actually easier to adapt to the planet that transforms it ... a good idea would be to make terraformation more a mechanical for the barren worlds and other inhospitable planets, rather for the very low-inhospitable ones

 

[Garfazz Steamfang]

I repeat, it is actually easier to adapt to the planet that transforms it ... a good idea would be to make terraformation more a mechanical for the barren worlds and other inhospitable planets, rather for the very low-inhospitable ones

That's the problem i'm pointing! That genemoding is a better terraformation when he need to be only a way to boost your specie. If the climat change remain, what the point of terraformation? It's fucking pointless, better remove the feature of the game and stay with genemoding in this case.

And it's just a matter of imagination... Genemoding thousand of millions of individuals with a new genome for just a climat change would be, in my mind, far more difficult than clouds of nanites on the surface of a planet and more, on planet where your pops are living (with the last terraformation tech they have added you can terraform a planet you are inhabiting so you have just to wait some time for having a new biome you don't even need to wait for the complete terraformation for colonize the planet)

 

[Red192]

It's fucking pointless, better remove the feature of the game and stay with genemoding in this case.

a good idea would be to make terraformation more a mechanical for the barren worlds

 

[Red192]

I repeat, it is actually easier to adapt to the planet that transforms it

"Actually" I mean that in reality this is so, it is plausible that I will be so in the future, indeed, more than plausible

 

[terrycloth]

Hello guys!
Before i start i want to warn my readers than i'm not a native english writer and that i can be gramatically wrong so sorry for that.

It's my first post here and i don't know if a dev is going to see it one day but i really want to share with you my point of view about genemoding mechanics and his relation to terraformation:

So for being more clear i want to discuss about two points: genemoding and his possible improvements and terraformation mechanics linked to actual genemodding and why this is bad.

Genemoding room of improvements:

I always found genemoding in this game to be quite strange. No unique mechanics, and a climat preference change which can be used instead of terraformation. And that's why he is used most of the time: a cheaper and easier way to terraform by changing freely the climat preference on your specie.

Genomoding always have been quite dull and lack of flavor. Right now you only gain points to put more traits on your species and that it... But Bio ascension in Utopia added a quite interesting feature to the genemoding mechanics: New traits and improved traits. The problem is that, right now, the only unique traits bio ascension have (nerve stapple and delicious) are quite optional and create a problem: They are xénophobes oriented traits and slaves modifications... I mean it's quite good for a xenophobe empire but he would don't have the choice to run other ascension outside bio if he want to have full benefits of slavery. so first suggestion

- Why don't put delicious and nerve stapple in the regular gene modding tech? Like this xenophobe would be free to take another ascension path and have more use of xeno food. Not only those are not "powerfull" traits like erudite or robust but they lock the choice of ascension path to xenophobic empires. They must be putted in regular gene moding.

- In another hand genemoding need to have unique traits for having a real utility to use it and be quite unique. I don't have traits ideas right now but maybe you can put a trait like "photosynthesis" or something like that which reduce your food consumption. In a nutshell put some unique improvements traits that are linked to body biology and function (muscles, skeleton, brain...) which can be picked in the regular genemoding, adding more flesh to the tech and make it more usefull.

- The bio ascension path would add more unique traits than the genemoding one and more stronger traits (like it do actually): erudite, robust, fertile... Coz bio ascension path should be the top of evolution and should have stronger traits options, maybe a stronger version for venerable or very strong too. Like i said before "Nerve stapple" and "delicious" need to be moved to regular gene moding version for don't lock an anscension path for slavers but they can, and it will be welcome, add more uniques traits in the bio ascension path.

=> Those things would make genemoding a little more unique and usefull giving you access to unique traits at each level of it with big bonuses traits attached to Bio ascension path. That's what you expect from genemoding, make your specie faster, stronger, smarter.

Genemoding and his tedious relation to terraformation:

With 1.8 devs want to cut the number of habitable planets in two. That's a good thing. But terraformation would never be usefull if the actual genemoding remain. Let's sum up that, actually, genemoding is a faster, cheaper and most efficient way to change your specie climate preference than terraformation, making the terraformation feature, completly pointless (the high number of techs that increase habitability are for something too. Actually 5 techs which give you +5% each for a total of +20% more diplomacy tradition +15% and gases for a total of 35/40% bonus habitability). Those techs need to go if they want terraformation to be usefull and used for conveniance, for increase habitability and production, right now no one need terraformation with the high number of habitability bonus you can have. But speaking about the genemoding thing there is an awfull option related to it, and which one is the main reason that people use genemoding right now, the climat preference change.
Indeed you can with genemoding freely change the biome preference of you specie with cheaper cost and less time than a terraformation.

For making terraformation great again and use genemoding for what it need to be (specie traits improvements) they need to:

- Remove the climat preference change which have nothing to do in a DNA change thing. Biome preference is a think created by centuries of evolution and adaptation and you can change it in a couple of days... Removing this feature would not only make terraformation more usefull but separate the two things, which isn't the case right now coz players use massively genemoding as a substitution of terraformation. Removing biome change would make terraformation usefull for..terraformation and habitability and genemoding for enhance your species or modifiy species for nasty needs (delicious, nerve stapple).

- Genemoding without climat change still can be used to bypass terraformation needs for those who want to RP or not use terraformation. Indeed you can still pick extremely adaptative (which give a very strong bonus of +20% habitability) and take the robust talent when you have the bio ascension path (for a total of +30% habitability). This massive bonus of +30% in habitability would give you, according to the last diary which say that the lower level of habitability would be 20%, At last 50% of habitability on every planet, completly bypassing the need to terraform.

- Maybe extremely adaptable should be a trait unique to first level of genemoding (coz he is very strong) and which make that, when you go beyond and beyong in DNA manipulation you can be more adaptative : adaptative should be availible at specie creation, extremely adaptative should be availible with first level of genemoding and robust with the bio ascension path. I'm not sure on this point and if it would make the things great but it would offer a progression for thoses who want to bypass terraformation by investing in genemoding.

=> Those tweaks would make terraformation usefull for what it need to be: habitability and production when genemoding is used for improve species and offer an option to bypass the need of habitability but without completly steal the terraformation mechanic of biome change. Basically genemoding would still offer huge habitability bonuses for making all your planets bearable by your specie without the need of terraforming it. But for that they need to completly remove the habitability techs in the game and the climat change option gived by actual genemoding.


In a nutshell i just want to give two different mechanics for two differents techs: Terraforming must be used for planet habitability and production or growth needs when genemoding will focus on what a DNA manipulation should do: improve your specie by acting on a body level.

I hope you can understand why i try to explain guys. Feel free to discuss about it.

+ Terraforming comes first. By many decades.
+ Terraforming is easier (fewer clicks, and it costs tiny amounts of energy).
- Terraforming takes longer
- Since all it does is change the climates and clear blockers, once you have people of all climates you don't need to terraform normal planets anymore.

Solution: Have non-normal planets to terraform, so that it can transition into doing that at the higher tech levels where you have gene-modding or many diverse subjects. Right now you've got tiny amounts (possibly zero) of terraforming candidates and small numbers (probably less than half a dozen) of tomb worlds. Is that enough?

You don't want to let people terraform *everything* because that way lies madness. I've tried mods that let you do it, like Alphamod. It was horrible. The Final Frontier mod has an interesting take with many many more types of uninhabitable planets, some of which can be terraformed like 'hot greenhouse' planets etc. It doesn't actually work yet, though.

Actually, just letting people terraform toxic might work? There's a moderate but not overwhelming number of toxic worlds.

Also, I'd like an early game gene-mod tech to create a colony on an uninhabitable world by randomizing the colonists' traits thanks to clumsy splicing with native life. Split out 'Environmental Adaptation', basically.