Gender-dominated faiths and succession laws

[Xain]

Sorry to go full-Denkt today (no offense intended Denkt) by posting the second post in an hour, but I had another question about the interplay between religion and succession dynamics.

I see that one of religions' main doctrines is gender dominance. I was wondering if it has any implication for succession laws.

There are different scenarios that come to my mind, and each one could be pretty defensible:

1. No change - after all, history is full of society with matriarchal goddesses, priestess, and male kings (e.g. Mikenes)
2. Influence on what succession laws are available - followers of a female-dominated religion should have agnatic-cognatic and female preference as options, and perhaps inhibit agnatic (male-only) succession. Conversely, male-dominated religion will not have the female only available.
3. Nudges in favour of a particular type of succession - in this case, religion would not influence the availability of succession laws (that will be tied to culture and government type as in CK2), but how having specific succession type is perceived. In CK2 there were penalties for being a woman ruler (opinion malus, weak claims being activable...), for example - those should be continued for male-dominated religions, and reversed for female dominated ones. Moreover, an opinion penalty for specific succession types (eg. female-only in a male-dominated religion) could be thought of.

What do you think?

 

[Denkt]

I think gender dominance have Little to do with the religion have many godesses and such and more to do with which gender is expected to hold Power in the society which would be Point 2.

Gender dominance will probablt limit the roles of the other gender, like councillors and rulers will likely be of the dominant gender with a few exceptions here and there with maybe the ability to increase the role of the other gender like you can do in conclave, but it could be for men instead of women if you play as a female dominant religion.

Likely it will be like this:

• Male dominant: Basically like in CK2, female ruler penalty, few female councillors, commanders and so on.
• Equal: Genders are treated the same, drawbacks is you would have twice as many relevant pretenders and partition could be very messy and powerful vassals of both genders expect positions. Advantages are you have twice as many people to choose from so competence is alot easier to find.
• Female dominant: Same as male dominant but women are in charge.

 

[junassa]

I think gender dominance have Little to do with the religion have many godesses and such and more to do with which gender is expected to hold Power in the society which would be Point 2.

Gender dominance will probablt limit the roles of the other gender, like councillors and rulers will likely be of the dominant gender with a few exceptions here and there with maybe the ability to increase the role of the other gender like you can do in conclave, but it could be for men instead of women if you play as a female dominant religion.

Likely it will be like this:

• Male dominant: Basically like in CK2, female ruler penalty, few female councillors, commanders and so on.
• Equal: Genders are treated the same, drawbacks is you would have twice as many relevant pretenders and partition could be very messy and powerful vassals of both genders expect positions. Advantages are you have twice as many people to choose from so competence is alot easier to find.
• Female dominant: Same as male dominant but women are in charge.

Well I hope it's a mixture of both points. I'm no history buff but from what I understand in some African religions the priesthood is strictly female.

 

[Denkt]

Well I hope it's a mixture of both points. I'm no history buff but from what I understand in some African religions the priesthood is strictly female.

Here it look like clerical gender is its own doctrine separate from the main doctrine.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Here it look like clerical gender is its own doctrine separate from the main doctrine.

While tenets are greatly anticipated and devs have hyped it more or less, I am more interested in doctrines, especially Clerical Function. I wonder whether they will patch "Witchcraft: Criminal" into "Witchcraft: Does Not Exist" ("There shall be no supernatural events on release"), too.

 

[Ezumiyr]

I'm no history buff but from what I understand in some African religions the priesthood is strictly female.

Never heard of that outside of exotic phantasms, and anyway it is very hard to know this kind of thing for medieval subsaharan societies given the lack of written sources.
Female-only clergies are often the product of the imagination of Europeans, either to fuel sexual dreams or because it makes the Other feel stranger. It is a very ancient theme that exotic people would act in opposite ways compared to "us" (those "us" being ancient greeks, christians, europeans, or later humans compared to extraterrestrial societies).

 

[AlphaCitrouille]

I wonder whether they will patch "Witchcraft: Criminal" into "Witchcraft: Does Not Exist" ("There shall be no supernatural events on release"), too.

There won't be supernatural events at release. But a lot of characters will believe in witchcraft and supernatural, so some characters might be accused of being witches and thus being declared criminals (or not, depending on the doctrine).

 

[Zhetone]

There won't be supernatural events at release. But a lot of characters will believe in witchcraft and supernatural, so some characters might be accused of being witches and thus being declared criminals (or not, depending on the doctrine).

The point is that the catholic church said witches don’t exist, not that being a witch is a crime

 

[Woifee]

While tenets are greatly anticipated and devs have hyped it more or less, I am more interested in doctrines, especially Clerical Function. I wonder whether they will patch "Witchcraft: Criminal" into "Witchcraft: Does Not Exist" ("There shall be no supernatural events on release"), too.

Just because people belive in witch craft doesn't mean there is actually witchcraft in the game. I would love to get a "witch" into my court wich I can council and stuff. Even her performing some rituals. But They just might work or not. I don't expect her to make rain after 2 years of drought, but I expect her to try.

Edit: With "I" I obviosuly talk about me as the player. My ingame charcter tough might expect her to make rain if he is a believer.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Just because people belive in witch craft doesn't mean there is actually witchcraft in the game.

Essentially this

The point is that the catholic church said witches don’t exist, not that being a witch is a crime

 

[Arch-Heretek]

Never heard of that outside of exotic phantasms, and anyway it is very hard to know this kind of thing for medieval subsaharan societies given the lack of written sources.
Female-only clergies are often the product of the imagination of Europeans, either to fuel sexual dreams or because it makes the Other feel stranger. It is a very ancient theme that exotic people would act in opposite ways compared to "us" (those "us" being ancient greeks, christians, europeans, or later humans compared to extraterrestrial societies).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordination_of_women Really? The relevant portions are at the top and bottom. We can talk all day about European fethishization of women and the patriarchal nature of Christianity, but you're just running with that very worldview by describing deviation as fantasy.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

The point is that the catholic church said witches don’t exist, not that being a witch is a crime

This is valid, but at various points doing the things witches are supposed to have done would be considered religiously criminal (as heresy).

It's a bit off topic for this thread, but I'd like to see what's covered by the "witchcraft" section.