Gelre

[Viperswhip]

Oh, I just formed the Netherlands and reloaded because wow, their bonus suck to compared to what I guess are the German ones that Gelre starts with. They are kind of an odd mix of admin and maybe colonization, but that's not very easy with the Netherlands in this game.

Anyway it's been okay playing as Gelre, it's just that without playing a nation that can block France, you kind of don't want to be close to them at all. So, it looks like I will probably get crushed by the big blue blob at some point.

 

[PedroVargas]

At some point, yes. But don't let it come that far.

In my Gelre game, they were my best buddies all game long. Helped me dismantle Burgundy and form the Netherlands. However, I also quit the game afterwards. I was was quite big, owning everything up to Lübeck and down to the French border - but expanding further east is so painful because of doubled negative modifiers in the HRE, it just gets quite boring because of all the waiting. Only way to go would be south through Savoy and into the Mediterranian. Or Britain. And of course expansion. Could develop into a solid game, but somehow I lost interest.

And on a final note: You're rich, and if you get one strong ally at that point, say Spain, you could crush the BBB easily

 

[Homusubi]

Gelre. Good to see people playing as microstates now and again!

The obvious expansion route from Dutch nations and the Netherlands in general (once you have used up northern Burgundy) is Britain. If you want to go this way, it is easiest to conquer Ireland, then Scotland, and finally England... unless you worry about the first CB, in which case you need to take Kent. As PedroVargas said, Spain is the logical ally although it can be a colonial (s)pain later on. They also provide a barrier against Portugal if you attack England.

 

[Yxklyx]

My current game I started as Friesland and formed Netherlands. It's in the 1650s and going well. I was allied with France for a long time but decided to cancel that in the early 1600s because their gains against the HRE were getting too big. I'm allied with a large Sweden, a large Naples and several German states. We actually beat up France in the last war pretty good - I was able to take Namur from them and had them cancel a Baden vassalage. The key to that war was a colonial war that France's colony started against my North American colony. Key because it was a defensive war and all my allies got called in. Austria and Russia are now fighting France and I hope Russia's armies can reach them and do some damage. I'm not really expanding much anymore in Europe though Austria hates me still. I have 19 provinces in Europe now as I just took Aachen when it was released from Austria and it wasn't allied with anyone. I'd rather not make any more gains in Europe and have to fight Austria - they need to be strong to counter France so I'm concentrating on expanding my North American colonies and my trade Protectorates in Malacca. I've taken Exploration/Trade/Offensive/Plutocracy/Diplomacy. Not sure what my next one will be. I'm ahead of time in all tech so have monarch points to spare.

 

[kvk]

What's wrong with your situation as the netherlands in your game? (why can't you colonise?)

 

[Viperswhip]

Well, I am not a big colonization fan anyway, so not big on those ideas, it's too easy, feels cheap and I know the new dlcs are trying to adjust that, but if I want to colonize I go play Conquest of the New World DE or maybe Alpha Centauri or something.

But also, you have to leap frog England, or go to war with Castille or Portugal or something because allies no longer add to your trade range, or go to war with Denmark or something. I just don't want to have to do that to colonize before everyone else, and like I said, I don't like it anyway. My point only was that the Netherlands Ideas are not as good as the German ones if you want to party in Europe.

Anyway, France got into a rather ruinous war with the newly formed Commonwealth and Austria, so me, my vassals and Denmark went there to party and over two successive wars that both destroyed my manpower, I got to 60 -65% warscore and restored all the cores of Burgundy that still existed (frankly, vassal feeding is not very easy now) and grabbed a few territories. I released Tolhouse and tried to vassalize them, but their tax base is too high or something. I don't know, I have 4 provinces that have a higher base than any of their three, but whatever. Since there are no more Burgundy cores to give back I am integrating them now.

So, the Blob, well, you just have to be opportunistic I guess, it's different than as Castille or England where you can really lead the charge.

A key though is to attack when you have the tech advantage, no other way to overcome the constant French + Ally armies roaming around. I have vassalized 3 of the Electors and am trying to get to the 4th in a way that won't cost me Stab, but I might just bite the admin points and go for it.

I did eventually manage to get allied to Castille, Denmark and Austria, but it was Castille that came to me, not the other way around.

Overall, the concerns now are losing Austria if Denmark goes to war with the Commonwealth, I will have to choose, and that is coming soon I think.

Austria regained the HRE but I am close to my 4th Elector and then I might want to take on Austria anyway, and keep eating France, maybe through releasing nations to diplo annex if I can wrap my mind around how Tolhouse can resist my 14 ducats (with maxed sliders, 3 +1 advisors and maxed army and navy) per turn empire of high tax base provinces. I know the formula, but it sucks lol

 

[kvk]

You don't have to be the first to colonize and I think the Netherland ideas are alright, especially the inflation lowering, really helps when you have a lot of gold provinces. And yeah tech superiority is vital when facing france, your game certainly sounds more succesful than mine, where I got destroyed by france!

 

[Viperswhip]

You don't have to be the first to colonize and I think the Netherland ideas are alright, especially the inflation lowering, really helps when you have a lot of gold provinces. And yeah tech superiority is vital when facing france, your game certainly sounds more succesful than mine, where I got destroyed by france!

I got inflation lowered through an idea, and maybe one of the German bonuses or something, I have -.2 and have zero inflation all the time except after peace deals giving me vast sums of money. Also, if I do colonize, I like to be first and cherry pick, but like I say, I hate it, such that when I play Castille I normally just block anyone from colonizing by taking over all the coastal provinces and destroying all the navies.

Timing is big for France, a tech advantage and France at war with someone else. Importantly, I had an Alliance with France until some vassal crap called them and they weren't willing, but I still had the Royal Marriage to keep them at bay and I improved relations and all that until I was ready.

But eventually they will be at war with Austria and some other powerful nation, like Lithuana or the Commonwealth, or even just Milan and Austria and that's a good time to strike. You cannot survive if they declare on you though, or maybe you can but it will be a much harder fight even if your allies to get to you in time. Strangely though being an ally of Austria they never called me into their wars against France, so I had to start my own.

I don't love allying to France but they offered to me as they would you, if you RMed them early enough.

 

[fleetothemoon]

Netherlands gets +50% naval force limit as a starting bonus and another +33% naval force limit from their government bonus. Even if you are not planning on taking on the new world, surely, a larger trade fleet cannot hurt?

IMO, Netherlands ideas > Generic German ideas mainly due to its naval limit bonus.

 

[Viperswhip]

Netherlands gets +50% naval force limit as a starting bonus and another +33% naval force limit from their government bonus. Even if you are not planning on taking on the new world, surely, a larger trade fleet cannot hurt?

IMO, Netherlands ideas > Generic German ideas mainly due to its naval limit bonus.

Hmm, we get so many coastal provinces that already I have one of the highest force limits in the world and have destroyed all the other western navies and even Venice's when they came to play in my neck of the woods. I'd rather have the German bonuses for my play style. It's just a bit disappointing because I don't remember the British or Castille ones becoming less attractive to me when I formed those countries, but those are the only other two I have experience with in EU4.

 

[echolot]

Oh, I just formed the Netherlands and reloaded because wow, their bonus suck to compared to what I guess are the German ones that Gelre starts with. They are kind of an odd mix of admin and maybe colonization, but that's not very easy with the Netherlands in this game.

Anyway it's been okay playing as Gelre, it's just that without playing a nation that can block France, you kind of don't want to be close to them at all. So, it looks like I will probably get crushed by the big blue blob at some point.

There some of unique content (incl. NI) for Gelre in Veritas et Fortitudo.

 

[Viperswhip]

There some of unique content (incl. NI) for Gelre in Veritas et Fortitudo.

Thanks, I will check it out.