Gearing Bonus= Use of Resources

[ddiplock]

I'm not entirely sure if I like the idea of extra resources being used simply becuase of the gearing bonus. Doesn't make alot of sense to me.

It means that if you have multiple serial lines running, that can amount to quite a price you have to pay in resources used.

What can I do to disable this in the misc.txt file?

Cheers

 

[son of liberty]

i'm not entirely sure if i like the idea of extra resources being used simply becuase of the gearing bonus. Doesn't make alot of sense to me.

It means that if you have multiple serial lines running, that can amount to quite a price you have to pay in resources used.

What can i do to disable this in the misc.txt file?

Cheers

+1

 

[ddiplock]

Anyone??

 

[Alex_brunius]

This should belong in the modding forum since its a modding question. But look for this line:

"# Gearing Bonus Resource Cost Increment ( 1.0 = if 10% faster production 10% more resource usage)
0.6"

It the 8:th line or so. Change it to 0.0 should mean no resource usage (I think).


I think its logical that more resources are used. How can you build 2 tanks in the same time as 1 tank without using more resources???? :S
Gearing speeds up production, so It should increase resource usage aswell.

 

[Balesir]

What Alex_brunius said, with knobs on

That line is in misc.txt, if you want to mod it, but it honestly doesn't make a huge deal of sense that gearing reduces the resources need to build a unit as much as it reduces the time required. By setting the factor at 0.6 we did give some resource efficiency gain with gearing, but I think the full amount (factor = 0.0) is way too much.

 

[Orm]

The faster you build a tank the less armour it needs. :nods:

 

[son of liberty]

I think its logical that more resources are used. How can you build 2 tanks in the same time as 1 tank without using more resources???? :S
Gearing speeds up production, so It should increase resource usage aswell.

Have you ever been in a factory? We definitely used less material overall on a run of 100 trucks then we did for 100 separate builds. The reason was we knew exactly what lengths to cut the wires, we knew how many screws we needed, how much sealant, and we even used scrap from bigger parts to make smaller parts.

 

[Rhedd]

ee

Have you ever been in a factory? We definitely used less material overall on a run of 100 trucks then we did for 100 separate builds. The reason was we knew exactly what lengths to cut the wires, we knew how many screws we needed, how much sealant, and we even used scrap from bigger parts to make smaller parts.

Exactly!

Gearing bonus represents experience and refinement in the manufacturing process, and that means not only more efficient time management, but also more efficient materials usage.

Being slightly familiar with not only factory work, but also factory design, it's perfectly reasonable to me that the gearing bonus would increase building speed without a corresponding increase in material use.

 

[DarkSoul1984]

but it honestly doesn't make a huge deal of sense that gearing reduces the resources need to build a unit as much as it reduces the time required.

It does not makes as much sense that it costs as much as it does either. Resource usage should run concurrent with the total amount of resources used to make the item, not a flat factor that would appear to show a serial production "assembly line" becoming more and more wasteful over time.

An assembly line actually becomes more and more efficient in terms of resources over time.

 

[Balesir]

It does not makes as much sense that it costs as much as it does either. Resource usage should run concurrent with the total amount of resources used to make the item, not a flat factor that would appear to show a serial production "assembly line" becoming more and more wasteful over time.

?? It's not more wasteful - at least, that's not the idea. With the factor set at 0.6, you basically get (for example) 10% extra production for 6% extra resource usage. I.e. you get more resource efficient, but not so much more as you get faster.

 

[son of liberty]

?? It's not more wasteful - at least, that's not the idea. With the factor set at 0.6, you basically get (for example) 10% extra production for 6% extra resource usage. I.e. you get more resource efficient, but not so much more as you get faster.

I am sorry, but that does not jibe with reality. Waste significantly decreases with long serials.

 

[Rhion]

I think there's some confusion here. It makes perfect sense since "Faster production = Faster resource consumption".

For example:
I want to built 10 cars. Each car takes 1 day to build and needs 4 wheels.

Without gearing bonus, it takes 10 days to build my cars.
In these 10 days, I use 40 wheels, which comes to 4 wheels a day

With gearing bonus, it takes 8 days to build my cars
In these 8 days, I, naturally, still use 40 wheels, which comes to 5 wheels a day

So my consumption of wheels/day increases with the gearing bonus, but the cars don't cost more resources. And AoD calculates resource usage on a /day and not /piece basis.

 

[Alex_brunius]

I am sorry, but that does not jibe with reality. Waste significantly decreases with long serials.

And that's what currently happens in AoD aswell!

Lets say you have high Gearing (30%)
You now build tanks 30% faster so you build 130 tanks in the same time that no gearing would build 100. But you only need the same resources as (0.6 x 30)+100 = 118 tanks without gearing would need. Yes Its still more then 100, but remember, you also get 30 more tanks built in the same time!

I would call 12 tanks worth of resources a "significant decrease" in resource need.

 

[Balesir]

I am sorry, but that does not jibe with reality. Waste significantly decreases with long serials.

The max gearing bonus gives a production time of 0.4 (40%). So, you are suggesting that 60% of the materials used in production are waste that will not be used at max gearing? That if 100 tanks at no gearing cost 100 resources, 100 tanks at maximum gearing cost 40 resources? I just don't believe that - it definitely doesn't apply in the business I work in (chemicals). The 0.6 factor in AoD would give 76 resources for 100 tanks at full gearing - which sounds at least plausible.

 

[ddudee]

For example:
I want to built 10 cars. Each car takes 1 day to build and needs 4 wheels.

Without gearing bonus, it takes 10 days to build my cars.
In these 10 days, I use 40 wheels, which comes to 4 wheels a day

With gearing bonus, it takes 8 days to build my cars
In these 8 days, I, naturally, still use 40 wheels, which comes to 5 wheels a day

So my consumption of wheels/day increases with the gearing bonus, but the cars don't cost more resources. And AoD calculates resource usage on a /day and not /piece basis.

This settles the question. If you don't understand, read it again. If you still don't understand, you should study classic literature.

 

[BritNavFan]

There's several issues with this.

- 1. There's lots of detail in the management of the secondary sector (manufacturing) but little in the primary sector. As my factories gear up, and as I get "assembly line" technologies, productivity of my factories increases and their resource consumption also increases... but there's nothing I can do to improve the productivity of my primary industries (metal, rares, energy, etc) or to switch resources from one to another.

I would have thought that assembly line technologies would imply improved efficiency/productivity across the economy. (Or do they give that and I just didn't notice?)

And of course, playing Germany I'd love to be able to increase rares production at the cost of shutting down energy production. But if you never experience shortages, what's the point of having resources in the game?

- 2. The gear that you need for outfitting infantry and militia regiments is essentially the same stuff that's called supplies. You don't have to retool, or get gearing bonuses for, shifting your production of supplies. And the constraint on how long it would take to form new infantry divisions if you have abundant "supplies" in stock is how long it would take to train the men, not how long it would take to set up a factory specifically to manufacture the 85th Infantry's own custom-built rifles. The retooling times really hurt the Soviets and the Chinese when they are trying to build new infantry fast, especially when coupled with

- 3. The AI doesn't seem to understand the implications of retooling, and isn't really great at managing gearing queues either.

All of this really hurts the USSR in 1941, as there's no way they can replace lost divisions in time to put a second line before Moscow. Instead, they start new production lines of brigaded militia: exactly the wrong thing to do with the retooling times.

 

[Alex_brunius]

but there's nothing I can do to improve the productivity of my primary industries (metal, rares, energy, etc) or to switch resources from one to another.

Yes there is....

# You can improve the infrastructure to improve resource generation by at least 50%
# You can build nuclear plants to produce energy.
# You can build synthetic material plants to produce rares.
# You can take over enemy lands and capture their stockpiles and provinces.
# You can trade for resources.

and finally:

I would have thought that assembly line technologies would imply improved efficiency/productivity across the economy. (Or do they give that and I just didn't notice?)

This is what the machinetools techs do. (Look for the "Industrial Efficiency Total" Effect)

 

[Amoral]

Yes there is....

# You can improve the infrastructure to improve resource generation by at least 50%
# You can build nuclear plants to produce energy.
# You can build synthetic material plants to produce rares.
# You can take over enemy lands and capture their stockpiles and provinces.
# You can trade for resources.

#You can build IC in resource generating squares to increases resources gathered
#You can adjust the sliders on the production screen to increase or decrease the Energy->Oil->Rares conversions

 

[Balesir]

- 2. The gear that you need for outfitting infantry and militia regiments is essentially the same stuff that's called supplies. You don't have to retool, or get gearing bonuses for, shifting your production of supplies.

Not really; supplies are ammunition with a smattering of spare parts and preserved foodstuffs. Change that to "reinforcements" and you have a point, but much of the rest of the argument becomes moot.

Even though the techs that give gearing don't fit the scenario, 'gearing' actually makes sense with training and such as well as manufacture. Setting up training schools to process periodic 'classes' is considerably more efficient than training on an ad hoc basis. AoD (as HoI before it) assumes that the weapons, equipment, vehicles, uniforms, and support structures that are needed by a division are built at the same time as the troops are trained; this is somwhat of an assumption/abstraction, but it works, for game purposes, just fine.

 

[BritNavFan]

Not really; supplies are ammunition with a smattering of spare parts and preserved foodstuffs. Change that to "reinforcements" and you have a point, but much of the rest of the argument becomes moot.

Supplies are (purely) ammunition? Countries aren't making rifles (and artillery) on a continuous basis?? Do you think these things never break or wear out?

Even though the techs that give gearing don't fit the scenario, 'gearing' actually makes sense with training and such as well as manufacture. Setting up training schools to process periodic 'classes' is considerably more efficient than training on an ad hoc basis.

Not very many countries train troops on an ad hoc basis. :rofl:

AoD (as HoI before it) assumes that the weapons, equipment, vehicles, uniforms, and support structures that are needed by a division are built at the same time as the troops are trained; this is somwhat of an assumption/abstraction, but it works, for game purposes, just fine.

Nonsense. Barbarossa is completely broken. Not only doesn't play historically, but can't play historically.