Garrison, Militia, and MP

[unmerged(35723)]

But if your only goal is to hold out as long as possible, why put artillery on them and not units with more strength? 4x Garrisions divisions should have 12000 strength which is 50% more then your setup, and also need 100 less leadership.

I only use artillery when I know the front will always be filled with frontline brigades. Like in very concentrated attacks or defences.

Seconded. I tend to believe using Art on static defence is a waste. When I am using GAR/MIL as border guards, I field them exlusively. 1 or 2 Inf+3Art divisions will be stationed behind the line as fire brigade. Port defence usually 2GAR division is enough to hold position until reinforcement arrives. IC/Airfield places solo MP brigades.

 

[Pugmak]

Is that necessary to attach MP to GAR at all?

You certainly dont have to. But in occupied areas, MP do have a better suppression now than they did prior to 1.4.

 

[Modo]

Plus military police brigades can have their effect upgraded if needed.

But if your only goal is to hold out as long as possible, why put artillery on them and not units with more strength? 4x Garrisions divisions should have 12000 strength which is 50% more then your setup, and also need 100 less leadership.

It depends on what country you play. For Germany, you mainly want to save manpower. Artillery fits your natural upgrade cycle, so you can also skip/delay some militia equipment techs (use less leadership elsewhere) and still have garrisons of useful strength.

 

[Kovax]

Attaching MPs to your Garrison units helps lower unrest even further, without a lot of additional manpower cost. Attaching ART allows them to do significantly more damage to any attackers such as partisans, but seriously increases their vulnerability to enemy air attack in places like ports (Support units now take far more damage from air attack than your "line" units in 1.4, and equal damage or more in normal combat).

I mix in an occasional MIL division (instead of the usual GAR) as a more mobile backup force to supplement my "partisan chasers". Most of the places will be guarded by GAR/GAR/MP, but around every 4th or 5th will be MIL/MIL/MP instead. In a pinch, having a couple of seperate MP brigades allows you to space them along a supply route to lower "rebellion tax" and allow for smoother supply flow, without a lot of expense. They're very vulnerable to partisans if any do appear, though, so it's not a "long-term" answer.

 

[unmerged(144305)]

Rebels appearing on the map are the least of your Partisan problems. Every province with a Partisan Activity greater than zero will reduce the ICs, Resources (and, I believe, Manpower and Leadership) which that province generates for you. It also seriously reduces the Supply Throughput (and increases the Supply Tax) of the province... which can be a real pain in the butt if you are already operating in poor infrastructure at the end of long supply lines, and already struggling to keep your advancing armies supplied.

Man, glad I stopped in here on this thread. I never knew some of this off-map partisan info. Thanks to the OP and Blue Emu!

 

[themousemaster]

But if your only goal is to hold out as long as possible, why put artillery on them and not units with more strength? 4x Garrisions divisions should have 12000 strength which is 50% more then your setup, and also need 100 less leadership.

I only use artillery when I know the front will always be filled with frontline brigades. Like in very concentrated attacks or defences.

While true, that doesn't mean that your port-garrisons can't field firepower "just cause".

If the timing of getting reinforcements to the area is the critical factor, then 4x (or 5x) GAR would be ideal. However, if the GARs can hold out with even 2xGAR (and 2xART), then the attacking force will be already hurt by the ARTS before reinforcements arrive, making the "repelling" of the attack faster.

And 2xGAR 2xART may even be enough to stymie the assault in the first place. 4xGAR might "hold out longer", but if 2xGAR 2xART actually REPELS the invasion, then... win . This is especially notable in the Pacific islands (where I actually go 2xGAR 1xART 2xAA).



At least I used to, I haven't had a whole lot of Pacific island with the "bugged" support damage of 1.4, so I might be wrong.

 

[Zzrow Graff]

I don't quite see the rationale for using militia and not garrisons with military police on rich provinces. The increased anti-partisan effect should offset the higher cost, having one type of division means you can shift them around easier, and you need separate, faster partisan-hunting divisions anyway.

I use lots of security divisions of 1 x gar & 1 x pol for partisan prevention. Perhaps it is a sub-optimal use of manpower and IC, but when Germany I always maximally suppress partisan activity everywhere I can rather than relying on 'fire brigades'. I just don't like the idea of disorder in my tidy empire.

I should qualify that I've only done that for HOI 2 because I haven't taken a German game in HOI 3 past the beginning of war with Poland. But that is still the plan.

 

[NoodleNaught]

Well i still prefer 3x GAR 1-2x ART, esspecially if i'm trying to stop a 5x marine divison 3x brigade per divison assualt all over my empire.

 

[fabius]

Man, glad I stopped in here on this thread. I never knew some of this off-map partisan info. Thanks to the OP and Blue Emu!

Same here, seems like I'm learning new stuff daily. Great news.

 

[Alex_brunius]

Well i still prefer 3x GAR 1-2x ART, esspecially if i'm trying to stop a 5x marine divison 3x brigade per divison assualt all over my empire.

I don't think any garrisons division alone will be able to stop 5 marine divisions.

I will however promise you that a single divisions off 4 GAR will hold longer then a single division off 2 GAR + 2 ART. Unless you have 1950 tech artillery and 1918 tech garrisons perhaps...

While true, that doesn't mean that your port-garrisons can't field firepower "just cause".

If the timing of getting reinforcements to the area is the critical factor, then 4x (or 5x) GAR would be ideal. However, if the GARs can hold out with even 2xGAR (and 2xART), then the attacking force will be already hurt by the ARTS before reinforcements arrive, making the "repelling" of the attack faster.

And 2xGAR 2xART may even be enough to stymie the assault in the first place. 4xGAR might "hold out longer", but if 2xGAR 2xART actually REPELS the invasion, then... win .

If I don't have Garrision techs, then I won't build Garrisons at all, and actually build something useful instead that can stop attacks, and absorb punishment aswell while doing so

I like garrisons for island defence though, since I can just skip researching their toughness and AT meaning only 2 techs now and then.

My argument is, sure if you want to put 3 or more divisions there and they will fill the front anyways, smack as much support brigades you want on there to help out! But until the front is full, filling it with men should be first priority.

 

[NoodleNaught]

I should have been a little more clear i put 3 of those divisons in every port and they are ussually able to hold of most attacks while i rush INF divisons to the ports being hit the hardest.

And i always have coastal defences built in every port above port level 5.

 

[Alex_brunius]

I should have been a little more clear i put 3 of those divisons in every port and they are ussually able to hold of most attacks while i rush INF divisons to the ports being hit the hardest.

And i always have coastal defences built in every port above port level 5.

Then we agree. With a defence off 3 divisions and a few more being able to reinforce quickly, Artillery is just fine since the front will actually be full off men

 

[thebigj_a]

Oh man. In my campaign the war's only a few months away, and I'm realizing from this thread I've been woefully inadequite at building GAR. I've only got like five divisions (3x Gar 1x ART), with maybe one or two more ready before it all hits the fan.

 

[NoodleNaught]

Which army you playing? Cause if it's Brtian then you only need 2 per port, at most.

 

[unmerged(162341)]

Whats your opinion guys is for major nation, say Germany,better to build garrisons or small regular infantery divisions( 2x inf. brigade) to serve in occupation duty?

 

[Modo]

Small garrison divisions with military police. This is the best bang for the buck against partisans, especially with MP upgrades. Using infantry, even just two brigades, is overkill on the firepower side while giving much less suppression. It makes more sense to put standard infantry in ports—one division will hold off pretty much any direct invasion.

 

[Pugmak]

Whats your opinion guys is for major nation, say Germany,better to build garrisons or small regular infantery divisions( 2x inf. brigade) to serve in occupation duty?

My suggestion is to play around with the division builder and look at the various costs in supplies, manpower, etc of different mixes and then compare the stats and see which you like best.

For actual defense, I used to go with 2xgar and 2xart per div. But with the battle mechanics what they are now, I'm thinking of dumping the gar and just stationing an army to manage the western flank with a light screen of 2x gar divs on the ports to serve as a trip wire (to let me know when I'm being invaded, just in case I'm not paying attention to that area at the time).

Along my logistics routs to the east, I sprinkle some 1xgar and 1xMP divisions just because I hate thieves and dont want a bunch of stinky foreigners touching my troops' stuff as it moves through.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

Whats your opinion guys is for major nation, say Germany,better to build garrisons or small regular infantery divisions( 2x inf. brigade) to serve in occupation duty?

There are benefit and drawbacks of both... Garrison works best for static defense of important provinces. They require less officers and have a higher suppression rate than infantry and almost the same defensive capabilities as infantry. Infantry are faster and tougher and must always complement Garrison divisions in any larger area to be defended if it is danger of enemy invasion.


I usually put 3 divisions of (2xGar,1xArt,1xEng or Art) and two divisions of (2xGar,2xAA) in any major ports as Germany. I usually build several coastal and land fort levels as well. Each neighboring province get a few levels of coastal forts and one or two divisions of (3-4xGar).

Suppression duty is important in the game since otherwise your IC and resources from the area will decrease. For this I use smaller Garrison divisions of (1xGar,2xMP). These are strong enough to repel enemy partisans and do enough suppression work to keep supplies flowing.

If I want to garrison important IC or resource provinces inland I would build a couple of land fort levels and place a couple of Garrison divisions there similar to the ones in my port provinces but usually these Garrisons would be (3xGar,1xArt or Eng).

I would always keep some regular troops around but I like these to be mobile... so my infantry is motorized most of the time. Something like (3xMot,1xTD) is a nice and rather tough division.

 

[thebigj_a]

Which army you playing? Cause if it's Brtian then you only need 2 per port, at most.

Germany.

 

[Pugmak]

Question:

Garrison units in a port that has a coastal fort built there too is safe from ground attack?

What's the value of stacking both a coastal fort and a land fort in a port province? Does one do something the other does not?