Garrison, Militia, and MP

[thebigj_a]

I'm a little fuzzy on the correct uses and differences on these three units (Garrisons, Militia, and Military Police), and the manual is quite vague. After searching the forums and the wiki, my general impressions are:

1.) Garrisons are almost as good at defense as infantry.

2.) MPs are good at suppressing partisans (does this mean killing them, or preventing them from appearing in the 1st place?) but not much else.

3.) Militia are... cheap?

But checking the stats, Militia have a better defense stat than infantry, but are cheaper than garrisons, so... why build garrisons at all? And are MPs really as useless as the consensus seems to say?

Ugh. :wacko: Can someone clarify this whole mess for me?

 

[NoodleNaught]

1.)Garrisons are good for holding ports or defensive lines like the magginot line and the such, and they are better then mitia as they're attacks are higher, they are really good at defending when you attach a Arty brigade to them.

2.)MP are best combined with a single mitia brigade and placed one onto each occupied VP. MP help to reduce the chance of partisans forming at all in thier province and every within a 2 province range of them. The attached Miltia brigade will be enough to deal with any partisan divison that does spring up.( In some cases other nearby MP, Miltia divisons might be needed to help defeat a partisan divison that does spring up).

3.)Miltia are as you put cheap, but pretty much useless against any modern infantry army, and complete crap when alone facing a low softness unit, as they have almost no hard attack. Though if you attach a AT brigade they can do okay against Tanks.

Sorry about any bad spelling.

 

[blue emu]

1.) Garrisons are almost as good at defense as infantry.

For static defense, yes. For elastic defense, no. Their slow marching speed leaves them horribly vulnerable to being over-run while retreating. Basically, Garrisons are good for defending provinces that you don't intend (or can't afford) to lose. I use them for defending Ports in conquered territory; such as Ports in Occupied France, as Germany.

2.) MPs are good at suppressing partisans (does this mean killing them, or preventing them from appearing in the 1st place?) but not much else.

Preventing Rebels from appearing, and reducing your IC and Resource losses (and your Supply Throughput losses) from off-map Partisan activity.

3.) Militia are... cheap?

Especially in Leadership. Most units require 100 Officers per brigade. Garrisons require 30. Militia require 10.

But checking the stats, Militia have a better defense stat than infantry, but are cheaper than garrisons, so... why build garrisons at all?

Militia have worse defensive stats than Infantry.

Militia:
defensiveness = 4.33
toughness = 0.67

Infantry:
defensiveness = 5.33
toughness = 3.00

Garrisons are as good as Infantry in defense, but have very poor Toughness (as low as Militia).

And are MPs really as useless as the consensus seems to say?

They've been boosted a bit in v1.4 but are still only useful for suppressing Partisan activity. Fairly cheap on Leadership, though... 50 compared to the usual 100.

2.)MP are best combined with a single mitia brigade and placed one onto each occupied VP.

Not sure what the rationale is for putting them on VPs. I would put them on Airbases (to protect my planes), and in provinces containing concentrations of Factories or Resources (to reduce losses from unsuppressed PA).

 

[NoodleNaught]

Blue Emu good point, but don't planes and boats just rebase to the nearest avaiable base when the province they occupy is captured? And as far as i can tell all valuable IC provinces also are worth VPs aren't they? And finally on a little bit of a sperate note do computers patroll for partisans at all?
Also what did you mean by off map partisan activity?

 

[blue emu]

Blue Emu good point, but don't planes and boats just rebase to the nearest avaiable base when the province they occupy is captured?

They're supposed to, yes... but what if they're out of fuel? I would rather not take the chance, and would also rather not see a sudden hole open in my Interceptor screen (allowing British STRAT Bombers to sneak through).

And as far as i can tell all valuable IC provinces also are worth VPs aren't they?

Not all of them, no... and resource provinces are even more important if you are using mild Occupation Policies in order to collect Manpower and Leadership from occupied land. With Collaboration Government, you get -100% on ICs (ie: none) but only -50% on Resources.

And finally on a little bit of a seperate note do computers patroll for partisans at all?

Not well.

Also what did you mean by off map partisan activity?

Rebels appearing on the map are the least of your Partisan problems. Every province with a Partisan Activity greater than zero will reduce the ICs, Resources (and, I believe, Manpower and Leadership) which that province generates for you. It also seriously reduces the Supply Throughput (and increases the Supply Tax) of the province... which can be a real pain in the butt if you are already operating in poor infrastructure at the end of long supply lines, and already struggling to keep your advancing armies supplied.

 

[Pugmak]

They're supposed to, yes... but what if they're out of fuel? I would rather not take the chance, and would also rather not see a sudden hole open in my Interceptor screen (allowing British STRAT Bombers to sneak through).

Not all of them, no... and resource provinces are even more important if you are using mild Occupation Policies in order to collect Manpower and Leadership from occupied land. With Collaboration Government, you get -100% on ICs (ie: none) but only -50% on Resources.

Not well.

Rebels appearing on the map are the least of your Partisan problems. Every province with a Partisan Activity greater than zero will reduce the ICs, Resources (and, I believe, Manpower and Leadership) which that province generates for you. It also seriously reduces the Supply Throughput (and increases the Supply Tax) of the province... which can be a real pain in the butt if you are already operating in poor infrastructure at the end of long supply lines, and already struggling to keep your advancing armies supplied.

Yep. If the provinces along your supply rout aint all green when looking at the unrest map, you've got local yokels stealing your stuffs.

 

[thebigj_a]

I got the militia defense stats from this thread: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9974270 but I didn't realize how old it was, so it's probably inaccurate.

Ok, so, in my '36 GER campaign, I'm thinking I build some Garrison divisions, maybe strengthened w/ arty, to free up some infantry on the Siegfried Line and maybe defend the North coast, and a few militia for occupation duties, maybe in a mixed division w/ 1 MP brigade. Sound strategy?

 

[blue emu]

Sound strategy?

Sounds good. I use Divisions composed of (GAR x 2 + ART x 2) for defending Ports... not sure how the changes in v1.4 affect that combo... and very small, 2-brigade Divisions of (CAV x 1 + AC x 1) to run around killing any Rebels that pop up. Both unit types are led by Old Guards, since they won't see much sustained combat anyway.

 

[Pugmak]

I got the militia defense stats from this thread: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9974270 but I didn't realize how old it was, so it's probably inaccurate.

Ok, so, in my '36 GER campaign, I'm thinking I build some Garrison divisions, maybe strengthened w/ arty, to free up some infantry on the Siegfried Line and maybe defend the North coast, and a few militia for occupation duties, maybe in a mixed division w/ 1 MP brigade. Sound strategy?

Just so other folk here can laugh at me, I'll tell you what I build for garrison forces..

My standard issue Garrison Division is Gar Gar Arty Arty. I'm thinking on changing that to Gar Gar Arty Eng just for grins and giggles.

Starting at the border nexus of France, Switzerland and Germany, I start a line that goes all the way up to the German province facing Belgium. I put 3 Gar Divs per province.

Oh, I play mostly as Germany cause they're easy mode, and only '36 campaign on norm/norm, because I can.

From the end of that line, I go single divs up to the coast except for the last province on the coast.

I build a 5 div Gar corps for defending Wilhelmshaven. 3 Gar divs on the port and one on each flanking province.

I build a 5 Gar div Gar Corps for defending Kiel. 3 on the port and one per flank.

I build a 5 Gar div corps for later stationing in Denmark. It holds the border with Denmark until then.

I build a 5 Gar div corps for the border with Yugo.

I build a 5 Gar div corps to hold Berlin, because I like to pretend the AI is smart and might do a paratrooper raid to steal my stockpiles.

Now, as I power my way through the low countries and the French coast, I already have gar divs that can be strat deployed to occupy the defenses on the ports and airfields as they get liberated by my invasion forces. This means fewer surprises poking me in the arse as I advance.

 

[blue emu]

I build one Garrison-ART Division per port that I intend to capture (in addition to one per German port), and then back that up with one reserve Corps of field Divisions (either Infantryx5 or Motorizedx5), positioned at least one province inland from the coast.

... that's one reserve Corps for France, one for Belguim and one for Germany... not one per port. If I decide to conquer Spain, I'll send the Belgian reserve Corps there instead.

All together, I end up with about two or three dozen second-line Garrison and/or Militia and/or (small) Cavalry Divisions in the West, backed up by about 15 field Divisions. Sounds more-or-less historical.

 

[Pugmak]

I build one Garrison-ART Division per port that I intend to capture (in addition to one per German port), and then back that up with one reserve Corps of field Divisions (either Infantryx5 or Motorizedx5), positioned at least one province inland from the coast.

... that's one reserve Corps for France, one for Belguim and one for Germany... not one per port.

Is one Gar div capable of an actual defense of a port?

Or, do you use your coastal Gar divs as tripwires to let you know when you're being invaded?

 

[blue emu]

Is one Gar div capable of an actual defense of a port?

Or, do you use your coastal Gar divs as tripwires to let you know when you're being invaded?

They let me know when I'm being attacked, and can certainly hold out long enough for the Field Divisions to arrive. I honestly can't recall the last time I lost a port to an invasion.

 

[thebigj_a]

I know theater commands can't cross theater lines under AI, but if i put all my garrisons under, say, an army group, on defensive stance, with my ports and such as the objectives, would it be able to handle it while I'm busy elsewhere?

 

[blue emu]

I know theater commands can't cross theater lines under AI, but if i put all my garrisons under, say, an army group, on defensive stance, with my ports and such as the objectives, would it be able to handle it while I'm busy elsewhere?

You don't actually WANT the AI to shuffle your Garrisons around... not after you've arranged them where you want them. I would put them under whatever command structure will spread to cover them (and whatever you can afford in Leadership) and then NOT automate them.

Your Partisan-squashers (for killing Rebels) might profitably be automated... but not your static Garrisons. Personally, I just control everything myself.

 

[NoodleNaught]

Okay Blue Emu i see the point of garrisoning resource and airports and the such if your a big country, i ussually play smaller country that completely lack a airforce and that aren't targeted by STRAT bombers at all, so i only worry about the VPs, and big IC provinces.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

I like to pretend that i need to put some Garrisons in my cities (where I got IC) in Germany so I put about 1 garrison brigade for every three IC in an area there. Berlin and a few other important cities get a few extra brigades together with additional AA brigades.

My port defense division will get 2xGar,1xArt and 1xEng in 1.4 and each major port will also get some AA support such as 1xGar,3xAA or 2xGar,2xAA.

I also like to provide my invasion armies with 1xGar,2xMP to secure my supply routs and suppress partisan activity in IC or resource rich areas.

I also pretend that I need to defend my airfields against enemy commando (paratrooper) raids and put at least a 2xGar,2xAA division on a major airfield or 1xGar,1xAA on minor airfield provinces. Where I keep an air-force present of course.

In my opinion these Garrison troops are quite effective as defensive troops. Using Garrison to trail regular divisions and enter into important areas in a defensive secondary line is very resource effective way to conduct both an offense and defense in the game.
A Garrison division with one artillery and an engineer in a fortress province are very hard to dislodge. Pair this with an AA garrison and you have a nice air defense capability as well.

 

[Jonas]

Another thread on MP regiments.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470743

MPs are certainly worthwhile in occupied or annexed provinces containing something you need. It is also entirely feasible to create a nationalism / partisan free corridor for your supplies. Suppression stretches out 2 provinces from the supressing unit.

 

[Modo]

I don't quite see the rationale for using militia and not garrisons with military police on rich provinces. The increased anti-partisan effect should offset the higher cost, having one type of division means you can shift them around easier, and you need separate, faster partisan-hunting divisions anyway.

 

[Alex_brunius]

They let me know when I'm being attacked, and can certainly hold out long enough for the Field Divisions to arrive. I honestly can't recall the last time I lost a port to an invasion.

But if your only goal is to hold out as long as possible, why put artillery on them and not units with more strength? 4x Garrisions divisions should have 12000 strength which is 50% more then your setup, and also need 100 less leadership.

I only use artillery when I know the front will always be filled with frontline brigades. Like in very concentrated attacks or defences.

 

[unmerged(35723)]

Is that necessary to attach MP to GAR at all?