Gamespot Review

[unmerged(17324)]

Some of you are under the impression that EVERYONE owns and internet connection that buys computer games. How can you be so sure. I don't believe everyone that plays computer games owns an internet connection. Therefore, the poor sap that bought this game without paying for an internet connection every month is not even going to get a PATCH! Is that fair to those types of consumers? Must every consumer of computer games put out $10-$20 (dialup) or $30+ a month (cable) to be able to play these games that should be finished when they purchase them off the shelves? Is Paradox going to mail these consumers FREE CD's with the PATCHES? huh? are they? will they?

We could use just an example of someone who purchases an internet connection just for patches for games. Over the course of a year this person would spend anywhere from $120 to $360 just to get patches alone. This person has no interest in online mulitplayer play or email or browsing the web, this person merely wants a game he purchased to work, pretty sad he/she has to spend that much MORE money just to get a working game. And since some of you will even go futher to bring up "FREE" internet connections, perhaps this person doesn't even own a PHONE, it's more the priniciple behind the issues than the items themselves. The game SHOULD be FINISHED out of the box....period.

Sure the Joe that has a nice income and can afford all the luxuries of an internet connection and all the perks of a computer can say how easy it is to goto the forums and get information about a game they don't understand, but, not EVERYONE can do this.

And Spruce it is you who should be ashamed for not thinking of EVERYONE in this situation, instead of your own greed for more games from this company or any other company that gets on the "buy it now, we'll patch it later" band wagon. This is a long standing trend that as Barney Fife would say "Need to nip it in the Bud Andy"!

 

[Damocles]

Bah. If someone dosen't have an internet connection, they won't know any better.

 

[Alexandru H.]

I think I have a whole CD filled with all Paradox patches, AARS, files, images, faqs...If I had a publisher, I could sell it and make a fortune...

 

[Jayavarman]

Paradox games are not supposed to cater to everyone. That is like saying Paradox should make their games less complex and have less variables so my piece of crap computer can handle it.

 

[unmerged(14386)]

"And Spruce it is you who should be ashamed for not thinking of EVERYONE in this situation, instead of your own greed for more games from this company or any other company that gets on the "buy it now, we'll patch it later" band wagon. This is a long standing trend that as Barney Fife would say "Need to nip it in the Bud Andy"! "

Might be a little to harsh, but I do agree with the whole 'might not have the internet' thing.

Paradox makes great games yes, but we all know that the out of the box version....well.....is not always worth the 50 bucks we need to pay.

My only real complaint is 1.00 stability (although this is greatly improved in Victoria, versus 1.00 of HoI). I would definatly sacrifice a handful of consmetic events for a stable 1.00 (better way for Paradox to alocate its time). Events could have then been added on in later versions.

You're guy without the internet is still missing out on some fun events....but at least his game would be stable....


Just a thought.

~Rob

 

[Spruce]

Raginhood,

do you think I'm egoistic and not thinking about every one??? Well that's pretty offensive. The game isn't even released here in Belgium - same goes for HOI.

My friends that played EU and EU2 don't even know about HOI and Victoria.

I bougth the game online because I'm forced to and paid Paradox contribution for further games.

I'm one of the few Belgians that bought their first Paradox game in the shop without knowing about the forum.

It clearly shows from your attitude that you are an anachronism.

I'll give one example = Adanac studios released much more patches for their grand stratedy games then Paradox. This existence is a " cohabitation" for both sides. A synergy in other words,

Matrix games bought Adanac studios because they believe the future projects are promising. Also the fan base is solid. Frank from Adanac needs the money from Matrix to stay into the business.

There are many parallel lines with Paradox,

If you know about a niche product that gives you much more compared to all the commodity business, you should cherisch that product and not treat it as commodity,

If you expect a perfect game llike this, out of the box, well wait until hell freezes over,

I'm greedy? Well, I've posted enough constructive things on this forum to know that you are waisting your time here,

 

[unmerged(14386)]

I cannot speak for others... but heres where I stand.

Because I have been a faithful follower of paradox for a number of years now, whenever they come out with a new game I immediately pay full price--because I KNOW it will be excellent. WILL, however, is the operative word. But I accept that and happily pasticipate in the ongoing growth of the game.

My ONLY major problem is that out of the box, I cannot get through 30 years (let alone a full GC game) without a CtD. I think a stable game is a reasonable expectation.

With this type of game, from this type of company, I do not expect 'perfection' imediately. Frankly....I think it is good that us gamers get to design future patches.

I do fee, however, that Paradox might have done better if the sacrificed some unnessesary events and such and payed more attention to some stability issues.


~Rob

 

[Spruce]

Originally posted by frasco101
I cannot speak for others... but heres where I stand.

Because I have been a faithful follower of paradox for a number of years now, whenever they come out with a new game I immediately pay full price--because I KNOW it will be excellent. WILL, however, is the operative word. But I accept that and happily pasticipate in the ongoing growth of the game.

My ONLY major problem is that out of the box, I cannot get through 30 years (let alone a full GC game) without a CtD. I think a stable game is a reasonable expectation.

With this type of game, from this type of company, I do not expect 'perfection' imediately. Frankly....I think it is good that us gamers get to design future patches.

I do fee, however, that Paradox might have done better if the sacrificed some unnessesary events and such and payed more attention to some stability issues.
~Rob

Frasco, I have the same vision as you on this game.

In my case I only have had one crash in 30 hours of game play fun. For EU2 it was one crash for each 30 minutes,

Patric promised (or Johan) a more stable game and I agree - from my experience altough - and that's why I'm biting myself like a stubborn blood hound into the trousers of some of these guys,

there are times of game bashing, but I found it was time now to say it's great and let Paradox cash in,

I'm sorry to hear some of us have still many crashes, there's not much use in biting if that would be the case, but hey I keep my faith way up high

 

[Syt]

Hm, nice idea - future games by Paradox will be delivered "as is" and will not see any patches, maybe one on release. Let the customers complain after they bought the program, we can add new features and bug fixes in either an add on that the customer has to buy or the sequel. Wait, that's how some big companies do it? Darn!

Victoria is IMNSHO the most finished product from Paradox to make it towards the CD presses, and is not only playable, but also very enjoyable in V1.01. Is it perfect? No. Paradox would sure love to have abother year time for each game they design, but with such niche products that's beyond economic realities, unless all the Paradox people take on another part time job, but then they'll need 36 hour days. However, Paradox is striving to make their games as perfect as possible, as their efforts in patching EU2 (almost two years after release!) or HoI show, and they listen to their customers.

Are they in it for money? Yes. But they also have the luck to do something they really like, desogning games they want to play themselves, not how marketing polls tell them the broad mass of computer gamers want them. They deserve credit, as it shows an idealism rarely found nowadays in this branch.

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and even if you disagree with someone's, go about it calmly and friendly.

 

[unmerged(14386)]

Spruce-

Perhaps my large number of crashes tends to be because of the nations I play. I have checked the bug foum and alot of my CtDs are well documented.

As I have stated before and will state again, Paradox is a good company made up of good people. There can be no deniale of this. Also, this game is the most stable of theirs I've played yet (Out of the Box).

In any event, I do think people are forgetting one MAJOR thing about the game when they say 'im gonna buy it at $19 !'

By doing that, you have no say in what will be impletmented in the patches. For instance....I have issues with the Political and economic system. Thus I have opend u p the thread Possible Remedy for Ecocomic and Social Woes

I understand that this level of participation is not enjoyed by many....if that is the case, I advise you look for a different game that gives you so much.

~Rob

P.S.....I must be VERY lucky as I have had XP for nearly 2 years and gave NEVER patched/updated it. Nor have I ever had any problems with XP.

 

[unmerged(14386)]

vcarter707 makes a good point and is correct.

Us paradox followers play these games because we know how good they can become. If a games reviewer just played any of paradoxs Out of the Boxs, he would think it was confusing and give up after it crashed.

We on the otherhand...know the potential. A first time gamer does not, nor does (in all likelyhood) the reviewer.

We have to remember this.

~Rob

 

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Originally posted by Avior
Send me $50 and I'll buy the game. Since you're so keen on helping Paradox out consider it a $50 donation to Paradox. If not, then sod off. Not everyone has the funds to shell out money for computer games on a regular basis. At least I didn't pirate the damn thing.

Even better, buy 100 games and give them away.

One guy I know got into a heated argument with a beta tester. After listening to the childish whining. He said something along the lines of...

" Send me the game. If I find it as good as you say, I will post on any board you want how good it is. If it fails to impress me, at least it cost me nothing." He is still waiting.

So much for conviction.

So how about it, are you going to put your money where your mouth is? ( I don't mean you Avior. I agree with you. )

If you don't like people doing the smart thing and waiting till it has been patched up, then buying it cheaper, then do one of the following.

A: Buy the game for them.
B: Convince Paradox that it is in their interest to not release games that need a patch or two so soon after release.
C: Go away.

Long time ago, when I was car shopping, I looked at a Triumph Spitfire. The freind who was with me said that everytime you buy a foreign car you put ten Americans out of work. I said that if those ten don't make the car I want, they deserve it.

 

[Syt]

Originally posted by Ironhand
people doing the smart thing and waiting till it has been patched up, then buying it cheaper

Let people decide for themselves which is smarter for them - getting the game now or later. Both may have its advantages and disadvantages.

As a beta, I have the German version pre-odered, but then again, I may not be as smart.

 

[Darkhosis]

Don't see how so many people can be saying how "great" the stability is, I generally get at least one CTD every hour or two.

At least one of them is reproduceable that I've recognized, opening up an unfilled factory information screen in a province that's getting a lot of immigrants, etc.. they'll fill it up and it'll crash.

 

[unmerged(21215)]

Originally posted by christianx
"Learning curve: About 2 hours". How can he define 2 hours as "so overwhelming and complex that you might feel as if you'd been hit by that opening-scene locomotive" *Lol*

Silly.

Now "lol" at you! You can play the game fine after two hours, but you're not an expert. Everytime someone turns a critical eye to this game, they get flamed.

 

[Spruce]

well I've played Mexico and Belgium past 1900 and ony had one crash!

I was impressed anyhow,

back to topic , the review stincks because there's no reference.

In Belgium we have a game magazine, were some "die hards" review their own categorie "racing, shoot em up, rts, etc."

The reviews are very good but last year some good guys left the company to start another company. The bad reviews from the new ones cost me a lot of money,

reviewers should state if they have experience with these kind of games, and what they really think of it,

 

[Avior]

Originally posted by Ironhand
Even better, buy 100 games and give them away.

One guy I know got into a heated argument with a beta tester. After listening to the childish whining. He said something along the lines of...

" Send me the game. If I find it as good as you say, I will post on any board you want how good it is. If it fails to impress me, at least it cost me nothing." He is still waiting.

So much for conviction.

So how about it, are you going to put your money where your mouth is? ( I don't mean you Avior. I agree with you. )

If you don't like people doing the smart thing and waiting till it has been patched up, then buying it cheaper, then do one of the following.

A: Buy the game for them.
B: Convince Paradox that it is in their interest to not release games that need a patch or two so soon after release.
C: Go away.

Long time ago, when I was car shopping, I looked at a Triumph Spitfire. The freind who was with me said that everytime you buy a foreign car you put ten Americans out of work. I said that if those ten don't make the car I want, they deserve it.

Spruce, you ignored my original post.. Are you going to ignore this one as well? Put your money where your mouth is my son, or step down from your high horse.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Hmmmm.... seems that the members on these boards have discovered "Trench Warfare" and are digging like crazy at the moment.....

Point is, some people consider Victoria to be so good and/or are such fans of Paradox that they buy the game at the earliest opportunity. Others aren't, and seek to get their money's worth e.g. by buying it for a cheap price on Ebay or in a bargain bin.

Personally, I belong to the first category. However, describing those of the latter category as freeloaders is way too harsh. As long as it is legal and quite common for people to buy games from bargain bins and they are happy with waiting till games get there, so be it OTOH, trying to get others to buy games for you, well, personally I find that a bit ridiculous

My other point is that game reviews are for a large part the subjective views of the reviewer. If he/she experiences a large number of CtDs and freezes, it doesn't matter that 500 others don't. If you're dissatisfied with a review, there a number of ways to react; readers' letters. post on their website; stop buying the magazine and so forth.

Rafiki

 

[Spruce]

Originally posted by Avior
Spruce, you ignored my original post.. Are you going to ignore this one as well? Put your money where your mouth is my son, or step down from your high horse.

yes because there's no offense taken from Ironhand's post. The fact is that if you would compare Victoria with a Spitfire car, there would be no other car to even replace that car, you just buy a Spitfire car because you like it. Perfection doesn't exist, learn to live with it and don't drag a great game down that's an even further improvement compared with HOI. Some people have mentioned it to be half finished etc. You know Paradox needs that money and if you are poor on money just admit you'll wait until it's cheaper to get it. Don't say it doesn't deserve to be paid for at this moment,

it would be saying like = darn that Spitfire, I won't buy it because it costs more then a Fiat Panda, I won't buy it because it consumes more fuel then the Toyota hybrid. I won't buy it because it's not a station car, so where do i put all my stuff?

MOO3 is a grand strategy game (it has minorities from different races, a very deep economic financial model), that was patched 3 times iirc and then the funds were stopped and not one of the dev's was working on the game,

Other smaller scale grand strategy games have been patched for many years like the games from Adanac studios and they are also great fun to play,

there's nothing wrong with a synergy thing here.

Some things that I said I shouldn't have said, sorry for that. But altogether I think it was justified,

 

[Dinsdale]

Originally posted by Spruce
MOO3 is a grand strategy game (it has minorities from different races, a very deep economic financial model), that was patched 3 times iirc and then the funds were stopped and not one of the dev's was working on the game,

MOO3 was patched once. It was released in an unplayable state, and even now, without MODs it would be barely playable.

However, that's the extreme, QSI are probably the worst development company I've ever experienced, combined with the worst publisher on earth; Infogrammes (cunningly now disguised as Atari.)

There are other strategy games out there at the moment. Glad you mentioned Adnac, probably the only developer of operational level Napoleonics.

Don't forget Matrix, they have a bunch of new releases scheduled, including Empires In Arms.