Gameplay suggestions wanted for the case of creating a new noble rather than giving a title to an existing one

Gameplay suggestions wanted for the case of creating a new noble rather than giving a title to an existing one

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jztemple

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OK, so here is my situation. I'm the King of Ireland and I now have three ducal titles and want to get rid of one to improve the opinions of my vassals. I was considering giving one to my existing vassals, all of whom have one ducal title already. But I'm thinking, perhaps instead of making one of the existing vassals even more powerful, I might take someone from my court without any titles and give them the ducal title. This allows me to pick someone I would prefer, not boost an already existing duke/duchess, and dilute the power of any one individual holding a ducal title by increasing the number of individuals holding that rank. Does that make sense to do it? Any useful suggestions appreciated.

Bonus questions! Suppose the courtier I pick to make a duke is lowborn and unmarried. Would it make sense to marry him to a member of my dynasty or house? Would it hurt to marry him to someone not lowborn but from outside of the Irish group and my dynasty? I'm figuring that this would somehow be involved with how that ducal title gets inherited. Any thoughts on this as well?

Thanks for any replies!
 

WarwolfOmega

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You can't give a Ducal title to a landless courtier, they have to have at least one county to be given a duchy.
 
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Dayvit78

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Now assuming you give 1 county and 1 ducal title to someone, there's an additional problem. Let's say the duchy has 4 counties. Well a duke with 1 county is less powerful than his 3 vassal counts. They will gang up on him in endless "liberty wars" or "reduce crown authority." He will be in a constant state of war which is not good for development, control and the taxes he pays to you. And if you do end up revoking the duchy from him, now you have all these worthless vassal contracts where every box is checked and taxes are at minimum.

It's better to have a strong duke, and just try to make him like you instead.
 
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DreadLindwyrm

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Pick a count from the area that likes you, and give them the title.

Or give it (and a county) to a dynasty member who isn't in line to inherit.

Assuming of course that they're not going to be a 1 county duke with a vassal who owns all the other counties in that duchy.
 
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Now assuming you give 1 county and 1 ducal title to someone, there's an additional problem. Let's say the duchy has 4 counties. Well a duke with 1 county is less powerful than his 3 vassal counts. They will gang up on him in endless "liberty wars" or "reduce crown authority." He will be in a constant state of war which is not good for development, control and the taxes he pays to you. And if you do end up revoking the duchy from him, now you have all these worthless vassal contracts where every box is checked and taxes are at minimum.

It's better to have a strong duke, and just try to make him like you instead.
Actually, if you want the Duke to be strong and hold many counties then you are creating a potential internal powerhouse to rival your kingdom. I prefer to split the counties up so that the Duke is less powerful and is more likely to be preoccupied with his own vassals. All the time still providing the same levy/tax obligations.
 
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Dayvit78

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Actually, if you want the Duke to be strong and hold many counties then you are creating a potential internal powerhouse to rival your kingdom. I prefer to split the counties up so that the Duke is less powerful and is more likely to be preoccupied with his own vassals. All the time still providing the same levy/tax obligations.
That's a risk I'm willing to take. What my duke vassals should be doing (same as in CK2) is expanding my borders outwards. If they spend all their time on internal revolts, it makes me do all the work.
If I notice one duke getting too powerful for my liking, I can always get a hook and change his contract to be partition.
 
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yezhanquan

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In that case, giving each duke/duchess all their de jure counties should be fine for you.

I must confess that I am having some tiny regrets over giving my duke of Bavaria the entire kingdom as HRE (de jure Bavaria is big. He used that to grab Kingdom of Sicily for himself, and now his descendants are fighting to unite the crowns). But, let's see how things turn out.
 
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Lightbanee

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I made my best knight marry a daughter of mine and he ended up being the king that conquered half of one of my neighbours. Give a guy a kingdom and he'll conquer another one for you
 
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yezhanquan

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Yeah, assuming the surrounding kingdoms are weak. Right now, my HRE is surrounded by (from north, clockwise):
1) Denmark, which is now defending itself from a claim war by Sweden;
2) a united Poland/Hungary, although there's a claim war for one of the crowns;
3) a weak Croatia and a stable ERE behind that;
4) a stable France (basically the starting size in 1066)

I appreciate my dukes and king expanding, but yeah monster neighbors can be a bummer.
 
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parkerg12

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You want your Vassal to be Stronger than there vassals just like you want to be stronger than your vassals. One thing to consider is making sure when you land people make sure they do not have claims on your lands or another one of your vassals lands, You can also marry them before you land them to make sure they dont make any alliances/ Get their children claims.
 
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jztemple

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Thanks for all the awesome replies! I'm really going to have to reassess my options based upon what you folks have posted. Since, as was pointed out, I have to give my new vassal a county before I can give them a ducal title, that works out since I now have one more holding than my limit. Also thanks for the suggestion about being sure to get my new candidate married before I give them the new titles. I already have titles in my kingdom that are going to be lost because a vassal married into another kingdom.
 

yezhanquan

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Thanks for all the awesome replies! I'm really going to have to reassess my options based upon what you folks have posted. Since, as was pointed out, I have to give my new vassal a county before I can give them a ducal title, that works out since I now have one more holding than my limit. Also thanks for the suggestion about being sure to get my new candidate married before I give them the new titles. I already have titles in my kingdom that are going to be lost because a vassal married into another kingdom.
Ah, inheritance conflicts. As a king, it is harder to take advantage of the situation. As emperor, you can theoretically let your Vassals inherit kingdoms and remain your Vassals.
 

parkerg12

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  • Europa Universalis III Complete
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  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
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  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
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When you have strong Vassals that Love each other, (by not having claims on each other) you will find they will do most of the expansion for you. it is a little dangerous when you are only a king, but when you get an empire title let them loose!