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Thanatoss

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Me everytime I see al Letsplay: "Pfff, this guys are really not doing great, what did he now? Man, I can do better, I can do much better"
Game is released: "Damn it looked that easy"

(Not sorry for bad english);)
 
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Flincher14

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Churchhill wrote in his books that at basically anytime before 1937 the allies easily outclassed Germany. Even England and France alone could've handled Germany. He also wrote that the government was aware Germany was rearming by the time of 1933-1934 but the british government was heavily pacifist and wanted disarmament. France's government was so dysfuctional that is also couldn't react as Germany armed in front of their very eyes.

The players have the foresight to know that Germany is coming. They also don't really have politics holding them back (France has some political debuffs that are easily delt away with.) The only thing stopping the allies from early intervention is that democracies don't have the proper CB's to declare war. They're hands are tied in a lot of places of arming up which allows the germans to get stronger leading up to 1939.

We have yet to actually see a stream of a democratic nation going into 1939 still democratic under a players command to face off against overwhelming facist might. The france stream shows Daniel and co. going communist early which lets them have the freedom to conquer and expand. I would submit that playing a democratic ally is going to be hardmode while playing a facist is more easy mode.

What Communist France becomes is an ahistorical what if. What if France went communist, being one of the largest military powers of the time..I think we saw a realistic scenario of what might have been..

Though for Hungary, the ability for a facist nation to annex an equally sized nation like Austria, quickly assimilate its people and factories towards expanding into another country that is twice the size as Hungary's starting size...thats a bit too big too fast as I think it all happened in a year or less game time. That was a while ago, I'm sure things will be balanced a bit better to slow down explosive growth.
 
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Beagá

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Me everytime I see al Letsplay: "Pfff, this guys are really not doing great, what did he now? Man, I can do better, I can do much better"
Game is released: "Damn it looked that easy"

(Not sorry for bad english);)

I prefer reviews of games done by the likes of Angry Joe. I think Let´s Play are too much like "give me the joystick and I´ll show you", then it´s like Schumacher driving a F1. It will make it look impossible and demoralize someone lol.

I prefer having good manuals, good tooltips and a good Wiki that gives me the info KNOW what happens in the game, then learn it by using the info to win the game myself.
 
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KevinG

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Sure, but Germany or Italy can´t compete tech wise, if the players of Canada, France and UK gang up, i only talked about the Canadian player, the French one tech rushed ATs and the Brit one tanks. They deployed british Tank Divisions and French Inf Divs on all river provinces and thats game over for Italy and Germany.
Also Italy has no chance against this in Africa or on the French Border.

Germany can actually afford to tech rush fighters, tanks, infantry, and AT at the same time. A lot of techs are useless or have very little effect once you learn the real mechanics of the game so by skipping these techs and not wasting precious leadership on useless spy and diplo missions you have enough leadership to always research the important techs ahead of time. A lot of new MP players don't know that tech stealing is terrible, influencing countries is bad, and around 20% of all techs literally do nothing. When I say they do nothing, I mean the mechanic is actually broken and doesn't have an effect in game, but paradox never fixed it and SP players don't know because no one told them. Prime example is any air defense tech, because air defense literally does not work in HOI3.


If you want to try MP with an experienced no BS group, I suggest checking out the paradox HOI3 MP forums. Some groups have over 20+ FULL CAMPAIGNS played, mostly with the same players. We've figured out every possible exploit, bug, and balance issue there is. All of them are covered in the rules. It's probably gonna take a long time before we're able to address the same issues in HOI4 MP but joining an already existing group is always better than starting a new one because we are always looking to create good rules for a balanced game.
 

anam

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Germany can actually afford to tech rush fighters, tanks, infantry, and AT at the same time. A lot of techs are useless or have very little effect once you learn the real mechanics of the game so by skipping these techs and not wasting precious leadership on useless spy and diplo missions you have enough leadership to always research the important techs ahead of time. A lot of new MP players don't know that tech stealing is terrible, influencing countries is bad, and around 20% of all techs literally do nothing. When I say they do nothing, I mean the mechanic is actually broken and doesn't have an effect in game, but paradox never fixed it and SP players don't know because no one told them. Prime example is any air defense tech, because air defense literally does not work in HOI3.


If you want to try MP with an experienced no BS group, I suggest checking out the paradox HOI3 MP forums. Some groups have over 20+ FULL CAMPAIGNS played, mostly with the same players. We've figured out every possible exploit, bug, and balance issue there is. All of them are covered in the rules. It's probably gonna take a long time before we're able to address the same issues in HOI4 MP but joining an already existing group is always better than starting a new one because we are always looking to create good rules for a balanced game.

I think it is mostly new players and players that doesn't (didn't) read the forums on HOI3 that knows about these things. I know about most of them and havent touched MP in any PDS games. Only SP :) But i read the forums a lot, and especially did that when i was playing HOI3 as there is a lot of ....."broken" stuff in that game. :)
 

amalric de g.

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Germany can actually afford to tech rush fighters, tanks, infantry, and AT at the same time. A lot of techs are useless or have very little effect once you learn the real mechanics of the game so by skipping these techs and not wasting precious leadership on useless spy and diplo missions you have enough leadership to always research the important techs ahead of time. A lot of new MP players don't know that tech stealing is terrible, influencing countries is bad, and around 20% of all techs literally do nothing. When I say they do nothing, I mean the mechanic is actually broken and doesn't have an effect in game, but paradox never fixed it and SP players don't know because no one told them. Prime example is any air defense tech, because air defense literally does not work in HOI3.


If you want to try MP with an experienced no BS group, I suggest checking out the paradox HOI3 MP forums. Some groups have over 20+ FULL CAMPAIGNS played, mostly with the same players. We've figured out every possible exploit, bug, and balance issue there is. All of them are covered in the rules. It's probably gonna take a long time before we're able to address the same issues in HOI4 MP but joining an already existing group is always better than starting a new one because we are always looking to create good rules for a balanced game.

Thanks for the inside info. I played never MP games myself, because i´m the micro all things guy and my playthroughs last several weeks. Maybe with Hoi IV i try a MP game.
 

tom_jones

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Hopefully today's stream has demonstrated the difference between game being handled by experienced player, and by people not so much experienced (to pull it mildly), like some in this thread and others had requested to see...
 
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Kashked

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I would if I thought it would end any type of speculation, but I don't think it will. So I'd rather try and produce enjoyable streams. :p

I would just like to quote this post after todays stream...

Not that the players were neccesarily bad, but atleast it showed that if you make mistakes you will lose, and that the AI can exploit weakness in the player. I quite enjoyed it though.... it showed off new features.

Like the lose-screen... :p
 
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wright1331

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Hopefully today's stream has demonstrated the difference between game being handled by experienced player, and by people not so much experienced (to pull it mildly), like some in this thread and others had requested to see...

If you have no idea what your doing, totally do the wrong thing, screw it up at a speed you cant cope with... of coarse its going to go bad. But a semi competent player who understands that you should have a border covered with your BIGGEST threat would not have these problems.

There is nothing the AI did here that would make me have hope. The pushed through an undefended eastern front WOW
 
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wright1331

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Have played some MP so I disagree with that statement.
i'd guess 80% of the people who play MP are better than the AI... So in general its seems like a solid statement

you just have to make sure you don't get trolls trying to country ruin. find consistent, fun players and you'll never look back to SP
 
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tom_jones

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If you have no idea what your doing, totally do the wrong thing, screw it up at a speed you cant cope with... of coarse its going to go bad. But a semi competent player who understands that you should have a border covered with your BIGGEST threat would not have these problems.
But that's the thing -- people were asking for a stream with inexperienced person handling things, because they have pretty much convinced themselves the game is so easy, even such player is going to be able to roll over the hapless AI. And well, they got such a stream, and it turns out this belief wasn't necessarily true.

Saying a competent player isn't going to have such problems is moving the goalposts quite a bit, as the complaints were along the lines the game is clearly so easy even a rookie was going to do well. Like it's with any activity players who are actually competent (vs just having high opinion of themselves thanks to D-K effect) are relatively rare.
 
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Krafty

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Well the problem with easy/hard is that its completely subjective. Whats easy or hard to one person wont be for someone else. The best they can do is go for a reasonable middle ground, and offer difficulty levels.

I mean have you EVER lost a paradox game on Normal? I havent. CK2 insta-death not withstanding.
 

griffor

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Well the problem with easy/hard is that its completely subjective. Whats easy or hard to one person wont be for someone else. The best they can do is go for a reasonable middle ground, and offer difficulty levels.

I mean have you EVER lost a paradox game on Normal? I havent. CK2 insta-death not withstanding.

worst part of ck2 is you think your doing so well than heir dies than somehow you die gg
 

Krafty

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worst part of ck2 is you think your doing so well than heir dies than somehow you die gg

I think thats the best part. Games just hand you victory these days, and with saving and loading, its so easy to go back and correct a problem long before a game over screen. Its nice to see a game over screen every now and again just to remember they exist, and that you can infact "lose".
 
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griffor

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I think thats the best part. Games just hand you victory these days, and with saving and loading, its so easy to go back and correct a problem long before a game over screen. Its nice to see a game over screen every now and again just to remember they exist, and that you can infact "lose".

oh yea i agree it more of the fact i feel like i lose and i could do nothing to stop it i guess is what i meant
 

Tumultus

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I am really at a bit of a loss. A few streams are not an appropriate sample, especially when the streamers are trying to accomplish something to show you and likely have run some 'testing' before to ensure the outcome they want.

Second, the fact that some of the people posting claim instant mastery of all PDX games but yet they can't seem to find good people for MP is confusing.

I'm not sure how to help you other than. To say wait for release and we can play some MP games together.
 
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