Game rule to disable pagan reformation.

[Fabiondo]

When are they gonna add this CK2 game rule to the game? On/Off/Player Only (disable achievements)

I know there is a More Game Rules mod but it’s quite buggy.

 

[Splorghley]

When are they gonna add this CK2 game rule to the game? On/Off/Player Only (disable achievements)

I know there is a More Game Rules mod but it’s quite buggy.

I'd rather that Pagan Reformation be replaced entirely with the normal Create New Faith system (perhaps with an additional cost for creating a new faith out of an old pagan faith).

Pagan Reformations are a CK2 holdover. There should be no reason I'm locked out of reforming the Slavic faith in Bohemia unless I conquer some Russian hill that my people have never even heard of, nor is it particularly logical that the faith can only ever be reformed once.

If reformations are included in that system, there could be game rule covering all new religions, so people who want a more historic game would get strictly historic heresies + no fantasy reformations, and the rest of us could either keep it at the default (rare but possible) or crank it up (common).

 

[Blk82]

I'd rather that Pagan Reformation be replaced entirely with the normal Create New Faith system (perhaps with an additional cost for creating a new faith out of an old pagan faith).

Pagan Reformations are a CK2 holdover. There should be no reason I'm locked out of reforming the Slavic faith in Bohemia unless I conquer some Russian hill that my people have never even heard of, nor is it particularly logical that the faith can only ever be reformed once.

If reformations are included in that system, there could be game rule covering all new religions, so people who want a more historic game would get strictly historic heresies + no fantasy reformations, and the rest of us could either keep it at the default (rare but possible) or crank it up (common).

The pagan reformation mechanics exist so that Scandinavia converts to Christianity. Without the holy site requirement, some random AI duke would reform the faith because he happened to have 3 virtuous traits.

 

[Splorghley]

The pagan reformation mechanics exist so that Scandinavia converts to Christianity. Without the holy site requirement, some random AI duke would reform the faith because he happened to have 3 virtuous traits.

That wouldn't matter if the reformation mechanic were subsumed into general faith creation, as the random AI duke's reformation would neither spread to Scandinavia, nor block anyone there / the player from doing his own separate reformation. They would just be separate faiths.

Plus it'd be fun and relatively more historically plausible - one pious duke in Ireland tries to take Germanic paganism in one direction - another pious duke in Ukraine in another. It's unclear why the Irish duke should be blocked from doing so because he hasn't won the approval of the Ukrainian one, who he probably has absolutely no contact with.

This is all a bit less of a problem with something like Germanic paganism but a far greater problem with something like Slavic, where the holy sites are dispersed far and wide and borderline chosen at random. The current requirements railroad Slavic playthroughs into a very particular pattern of vast expansion, which may not at all be what the player would like to do with his game.

 

[mrstevehazzard]

The pagan reformation mechanics exist so that Scandinavia converts to Christianity. Without the holy site requirement, some random AI duke would reform the faith because he happened to have 3 virtuous traits.

They could make sure that most unreformed pagan lands convert to reformed religions by adding another CK2 mechanic missing from CK3... other kingdoms sending their court chaplains to convert the populace, or the pagan king requesting conversion from a neighbor.

 

[Blk82]

That wouldn't matter if the reformation mechanic were subsumed into general faith creation, as the random AI duke's reformation would neither spread to Scandinavia, nor block anyone there / the player from doing his own separate reformation. They would just be separate faiths.

Plus it'd be fun and relatively more historically plausible - one pious duke in Ireland tries to take Germanic paganism in one direction - another pious duke in Ukraine in another. It's unclear why the Irish duke should be blocked from doing so because he hasn't won the approval of the Ukrainian one, who he probably has absolutely no contact with.

This is all a bit less of a problem with something like Germanic paganism but a far greater problem with something like Slavic, where the holy sites are dispersed far and wide and borderline chosen at random. The current requirements railroad Slavic playthroughs into a very particular pattern of vast expansion, which may not at all be what the player would like to do with his game.

It is an issue in game because the AI doesn't change doctrines when reforming, except for the head of faith. So, if multiple rulers reformed the same faith, then there would be multiple identical variants of reformed Asatru. And, there is the question of which variant gets to all itself "Asatru" and what the other variants would be called: Olafism , after the founder, Icelandism after the title of the founder? Granted, these are not insurmountable problems, but teaching the AI to invent its own heresies will require some work on the part of the devs.

Also, when a character reforms their faith, they lose the malus to conversion, which would result in reformed Asatru becoming the county faith in the British isles, Britany/Normandy, and parts of Russia.

 

[FishieFan]

That wouldn't matter if the reformation mechanic were subsumed into general faith creation, as the random AI duke's reformation would neither spread to Scandinavia, nor block anyone there / the player from doing his own separate reformation. They would just be separate faiths.

Plus it'd be fun and relatively more historically plausible - one pious duke in Ireland tries to take Germanic paganism in one direction - another pious duke in Ukraine in another. It's unclear why the Irish duke should be blocked from doing so because he hasn't won the approval of the Ukrainian one, who he probably has absolutely no contact with.

This is all a bit less of a problem with something like Germanic paganism but a far greater problem with something like Slavic, where the holy sites are dispersed far and wide and borderline chosen at random. The current requirements railroad Slavic playthroughs into a very particular pattern of vast expansion, which may not at all be what the player would like to do with his game.

You're trying to change the religion of your people as a whole, it should be difficult. We know of the varangians swearing by more slavic gods and less norse gods in their oaths with the byzantines as time goes on, but at present the game can just represent that by flipping from norse to slavic as the ruler of kiev.
How are slavic holy sites any more randomly distributed than germanic? Its 1 in each of the major kingdoms that at one time followed that religion, which if you're forming an empire you'll blob into eventually. A pious duke in ireland is likely to be in contact with one in ukraine with how the trade routes connect the two

 

[Rubidium]

Yep. There's a reason that no one in the CK time frame actually succeeded in making a lasting "reformed" faith, and why most of them converted to whichever variation of Buddhism/Christianity/Islam happened to be nearby.

Medieval folks weren't stupid. If the king says "we will now all worship a god that I just invented, and replace the old ways with a new one that he just made up," most of the peasants will just ignore him. Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. have existing missionary and religious infrastructure that can be imported, and many of the peasants will already be at least familiar with folks with that religion (foreign merchants, pre-existing converts, folks who have traveled abroad, etc.). There's a reason that e.g. when Scandinavian monarchs adopted Christianity, they imported foreign priests wholesale to staff their churches and preach to their people. If you create your own faith, you lack that infrastructure.

 

[Pigposting]

I'd rather that Pagan Reformation be replaced entirely with the normal Create New Faith system (perhaps with an additional cost for creating a new faith out of an old pagan faith).

I'd be fine with an option to reform OR create new faith. Sometimes you'd want to splinter off from the main faith as a pagan without conquering the entirety of Scandinavia to do it. Maybe to balance it it'll still count as an unreformed faith and/or costs more than you would reforming it.

If I wanted to roleplay as a coven of norse witches in Orkney and play tall, I should be able to do so without invading half of northern europe.

Reforming in CK3 is silly anyway since the unreformed believers of your faith outside of your realm don't reform with you. It was the entire appeal of reforming slavic pagan or tengri back then in CK2 because of how difficult they were.

 

[TinWiz]

Yeah I don't understand why the game rule to disable pagan organization/reformation and pagan kingdom conversions aren't in this game. Looking for options to encourage historical shaping.