Well I will say for the first ever, in my current game the Ottomans were completely eliminated by Austria and the Mamluks. Never seen that before...ever. Austria is basically god sized this time.
Game ruined - again- by the Ottomans
- Thread starter Oxenstierna13
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This is basically my game right now as well. Ottomans are down to a Constantinople and a handful of Anatolian provinces in mid 1500's. Austria fully inherited Hungary in the 1520's and has been steamrolling Otto every few years.
I played two games.
In my first run, with Portugal, by 1550 the Ottomans are very weak, with Austria anexing Hungary and taking Ottoman land, already bordering Constantinople. Karaman still alive and Mamluks also very strong, of course.
In my second run, with France, by 1530 I see the usual Ottomans, already beating the Mamluks near Ghazzah.
So, two games, two outcomes for the Ottomans.
In my first run, with Portugal, by 1550 the Ottomans are very weak, with Austria anexing Hungary and taking Ottoman land, already bordering Constantinople. Karaman still alive and Mamluks also very strong, of course.
In my second run, with France, by 1530 I see the usual Ottomans, already beating the Mamluks near Ghazzah.
So, two games, two outcomes for the Ottomans.
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The point is most people didn't complain about ottomans being too strong vs players on the last patches but being too strong for any other AI to handle.
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I've been trying to do this for a few games. Gets frustrating haha. I can beat otto with byz with venice + albania, or some other combination, but I've not been able to pull off it with just albania.
@JaxElite Yeah, I would like to see better AI planning... I feel a majority of the problem with the game is AI likes to pick wars it can't win and does a terrible job of timing them. I also wish I had the option of getting a warning before AI decides to try to drag me into some dumb offensive war.
I also wish there were different stages of military alliances. Defensive pacts without offense and the like. Coalition and alliances (so your allies stop attacking eachother like morons. Yes, I know England wants the Faroes, however, The HRE just formed and maybe we should be thinking about stopping Austria instead of worrying over fucking islands England.)
Did you play 1.30 in all 3 runs?
Because in 1.30, ottoman will run after 3 wars into 1000 ducats and more debts, and start to stop there blobbing.
Because in 1.30, ottoman will run after 3 wars into 1000 ducats and more debts, and start to stop there blobbing.
In diplomatic menu, there are 3 windows, first window, the typical window were you open the dialog, second, and the third window.
If you click on third window, you can see "Trust as number, and when you get next trust point".
Below are more diplomatic option, one of them:
"do not join offensive war as ally"
or
"do not start a war AI, i prepare very big war, so wait 5 years"
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Ah yes, the famous burgundian suicide for provence before 1.30 was replaced by the burgundian suicide for liege
Defensive only exists, there is a checkbox to turn off "join offensive wars". No idea if AI uses it though, probably not.
But anyway, this threat is mostly about a 1.29 and earlier issue that seems mostly fixed in 1.30
As a relative scrub compared to the rest of the forum, the Ottomans feel like they were nerfed in 1.30. Out of the ten different saves I've tried, they always failed to take the Mamluks out and at times even failed to unite Anatolia and the Turkish culture. They were somewhat problematic in earlier patches, where they blobbed where they really, REALLY shouldn't (Italy, Spain, India), but it feels very, VERY much different nowadays.
Any further nerfs would throw the balance off, honestly. And if anyone has played minors and toppled Great Powers, they should know that throwing off the balance causes the game to fly off of the rails fast. Sometimes, not for the best.
Any further nerfs would throw the balance off, honestly. And if anyone has played minors and toppled Great Powers, they should know that throwing off the balance causes the game to fly off of the rails fast. Sometimes, not for the best.
It is the income of ottoman, if you play a nation who can ally the ottman, you will see, that they go maximum forcelimit with army, cannot pay for it, run after 3 wars into 1000 ducats debt, and will stop the blobbing on there own, or joinning in your wars.
As human, you will not run 60k army in a situation like this, you will go down to 45-50k, and will never run into loans, AI on the other hand, has problems and goes passive.
This is factually not true.
The Ottomans can completely steamroll the combined forces of Austria, Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Bohemia, while also fighting a war against Venice, and a bunch of minors. And do so without loosing a single battle.
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Before 1.30. In 1.30, even at the very beginning? Absolutely false. The Ottomans cannot handle economically such a strain, and will struggle against a full-power Venice for quite a bit.
Considering Im just watching them wander around stack-wiping everything they come into contact with, I beg to differ.
Edit: Although Im not involved in the above war, my issue with the Ottomans has always been that their armies are way too overpowered, far more than they have any business being. They can fight a battle on the offensive, against massively superior forces, against a better general, against better technology, against higher morale, against higher discipline, and not just win but win decisively.
Fighting the Ottomans isnt fun or enjoyable when you ave to absolutely cheese the hell out of the game in every aspect.
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Before 1.30, Ottomans gave a challenge. A huge power, to avoid just steamrolling everything as a player. Now, I've played 2 games and in both games they could barely eliminate Byzance before being reduced to crumbs by Poland or Mamluks around 1560...
I, for my part, hope that they'll be given their power back. Because expanding and strengthening yourself to the point you're able to challenge the ottomans has always been a fun part of the game, where strategy actually means something...
I, for my part, hope that they'll be given their power back. Because expanding and strengthening yourself to the point you're able to challenge the ottomans has always been a fun part of the game, where strategy actually means something...
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The correct takeaway from this phenomenon would be "improve AI to give humans a challenge" and not "buff a few tags with absurd modifiers which make the game even easier since they just break everyone around them.
I mean in 1.29 you could regularly 1v1 the PLC as brandenburg without having expanded just because they just fought the ottomans and got rekt so hard that tjey were basically kicked from the game. I am really happy that ottomans in line with the other tags now, would be a perfect moment to improve AI.
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If you are playing a major power, then the Ottomans only become a problem if you let them. Surround them with a web of alliances, smash their navy, take one province controlling the Straits, and Otto is hosed. Heck, usually just one big major with the Ottomans as a rival allied to you is enough to counter them. If you are playing a smaller nation, then either joining the HRE or getting big friends is mandatory. Either way you can manipulate diplomacy to drag them into the war.
if you are playing outside of Europe you are either in a position to grow huge enough to smash them, China or India et al, or are just going to have to play towards the end game and deal with Ottomans then if necessary.
I will say you should probably wait until all the hot patches for 1.30 are released. The HRE has some serious issues that are likely messing with the response towards Ottoman aggression.
if you are playing outside of Europe you are either in a position to grow huge enough to smash them, China or India et al, or are just going to have to play towards the end game and deal with Ottomans then if necessary.
I will say you should probably wait until all the hot patches for 1.30 are released. The HRE has some serious issues that are likely messing with the response towards Ottoman aggression.
Ottomans have hardly been a problem in my Burgundy game. I took the defender of the faith title, and I would just kick their teeth in every time they tried to expand into Hungary or Poland. By late 1500's they were hardly a problem anymore
I ended up abandoning this game cause I got way too strong and game became boring because of it
I ended up abandoning this game cause I got way too strong and game became boring because of it
Dealing with Blobbonwealth space marine cavalry might have got exciting late-game
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It exists, yes, but it completely prevents any favour build up and it makes them less likely to keep the alliance, so realistically no-one is going to use it.
The problem is that the AI can refuse calls without penalty, because you can't call them if they'll say no. Meanwhile, a human player has no choice but to accept or suffer a bunch of penalties, even if it's a completely suicidal war.
I agree Ottomans shouldn't join the Christian Religious War... only Christians should.
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